Thanks everyone! I have never pored over so many different variations on white … it's fun and maddening at the same time :)

If you are painting walls/ceilings you should really go with a true Benjamin Moore paint if you are picking a BM color. That tiny little difference that people are talking about that (won't matter) makes all the difference in the world. BM colors are by far superior to any other paint on the market. Now if you are painting kitchen cabinets and doors, BM does not really make a product that is durable for high traffic areas. In that case you should go with a SW paint (Pro Classic is always great). I would highly suggest you find a SW color. If you are dead set on a BM color, then have them match the Swatch. They have BM colors in their systems but I had a horrible experience with this. They tinted the paint with more color then the paint could hold and the colors separated while drying. They're system did not warn them that the paint could not hold that much tint. You can see my attached pictured, the blue/grey is the proper color, the green is what happened to areas that were slightly thicker and had longer to dry (were talking minutes apart)

It's. It worth it to try to color match - a contractor tried to match a paint for me and ruined my walls, now I have to have them done all over from top to bottom. Look at the splotchy yellow. The hue is all wrong and you won't be happy - stick with Benjamin Moore original paints

We color match all the time from one brand to another depending on the look we want. We frequently make samples on the material we will be using as some surfaces absorb the paint or stain differently. We let the client pick the sample they like best.

Benjamin Moore paint is hands down the best product, next to paints manufactured in Britain. All of Sherman Williams products are inferior from the brushes, rollers and especially the paint. You get what you pay for. Aura from BM will make you a better painter and the finished look is fantastic. If your putting in the time get the best paint!

Interesting thread in that most of the time the chips do not match the paint mixed perfectly at any paint store.

Only when the person matching it does a poor job. This is not rocket science folks. A spectrograph can match the color perfectly if the oppertator is properly trained and does a good job. If you have experienced a poor match, it is either opperator error and not the fault of the technology or the stain/paint is applied to a different surface causing the variance.

computers will only get a match so far. you truly need the naked eye to get you the rest of the way.

I recently moved into a house that I needed to get another gallon of paint that the previous owner used. For convenience I went to the same company but at a different location. The original can had the formula so no big deal, right? WRONG. I got home and found that the colors in the cans looked different (looked ok in the store). Went to another location which was closer and asked them about why the difference. They told me that even between stores of the same company, their machines can be calibrated just enough to make a difference between one location to another. They made up another gallon as I did not know what location it originally came from. They couldn't match it either. Rather than chasing all over town to match it I gave up and went in a different color direction. This is a regional paint company with paint quality that I compare to BM & SW.

I've used them all and because of their own formulas I have never had luck matching one brand to another brand. You might luck out the first gallon but if you have to get more down the road, you may be up a creek. If there is a color you must have, then get it from the company whose color it is.

I'm surprised to see all the positive reviews for BM paint. I am going out to colour match because I can't stand theirs anymore. I've been using it for doors and trim and it's just terrible! My kitchen cabinet doors were custom made and painted in BM Oxford White so I went out and got my own can of that colour from them so that all the white in my house would match. It's fine on the trim but absolutely terrible on the doors! And they arrived already primed. Not impressed at all. I was going to go with SW but after reading this I will head over to Home Depot and get them to match it in the Behr. If it's the slightest bit off I probably won't even notice since it's white and not a full coloured product.

I'm a big Ben Moore fan since I worked for a company that sold BM. The manager in the paint department had 40 yrs experience in the industry and could match exactly by eye. If the project matters, only use BM tint in BM base. Besides, their Regal line is so thick and goes on so smoothly. I don't use anything else.

DM I would use Sherwin Williams ProClassic paint. Just don't ask them to color match by name. No company does that well. Take the time to get them a sample of the color and then work with them to get a match. Most of the people who work in paint stores these days have never held a paint brush in their hands and are not colorists. The ProClassic will beat Behr hands down. We use Sherwin Williams all the time and it is the best, most consistent paint we have used. We are just picky about the colors actually matching.

I was at SW yesterday trying to "make" a color that seems to exist only in my mind. The staff was phenomenal and I learned something interesting... All of their "white" bases have a tad of gray in them because that helps with coverage. We used the same pigments in each of the 3 bases. The ultradeep base produced the clearest color but will not cover as well. All 3 bases produced a similar shade... the difference is in the amount of gray. So if I want a truly clear color, I may not be able to use SW.

Try Ben Moore's "Color Preview" for clear colors.

Thanks for the "Clear Preview" suggestion. Is that for visualization or for the paint undertone, please?

I am looking for a paint manufacturer that uses a blue undertone paint base rather than a gray one. Any suggestions?

ugh. SW matched my BM wrong. It's not even close. Like, not at all. I asked for Wickham grey. It looks like drywall.

If you read the whole thread, most pros offer that no company can match another company's color perfectly by a formula. I have not seen one time in 15 years that the color was close enough to be acceptable. The chemical composition of the base tints with which they start are not the same, therefore the color cannot be the same. If you want a match, it takes work on your part as well. Buy a sample of the color that you want to match. Paint a 2'x3' test board with the color. Take this and the paint chip to the store that you are going to buy the paint from. Start with the formula and then make tweaks and adjustments based on what direction you need to take it to. Paint enough on your sample board to really see the color (a spot on the top of the can will NOT do it). Take the color out into the light. The stores have fluorescent lighting and it greatly alters color. Sometimes it takes hours to get it right. Easier to just buy the color in the brand that makes it.

You are so right! When I found a house with colors I loved, I was sneakily trying to match by cards.

Luckily, the owner, thankfully, did not set dogs on me...instead ended up GIVING me actual paint used on his victorian, (4 colors). He and his wife were just amazing...gave me invitation to a Christmas get together they were having...But, I took samples, to BM, missed color, then to KM..long time ago..missed...I had so many samples painted on my house, never matching.

I finally painted half of one side of pieces of wood..around 18"x 12" with my samples..then painted computer matched paint from those stores.

None matched. ( The original paint was high dollar top of line and high $$$$$)I must be undiagnosed O.C.D. because, after so much time involved, I was determined to get my colors. BM guys, I remember, were a little upset that I wouldn't accept their sample. KM, also eyeballed trying to get his sample closer. But, since reading here, I realize, he was doomed before he started. We couldn't get past whatever base color they used. BM was also off, but a little closer.

I bought each paint, mixed by parts until I got as close as I could get.

Used BM for my base and added the other in parts, I mixed and mixed and then mixed some more until each 5gallons painted matched each other and my samples....NEVER AGAIN!!!

I really hated buying majority in BM paints, ( although people I trusted all specified that brand.) Because guys at the store I used didn't begin to try to match..or budge from counter to SEE what I was talking about. It was computer has delivered...like it or leave it. Lazy. But, I wasn't disappointed...

Now, I stick with colors of the brand used. I also think it is better in long run, to get best you can afford, even if you have to save a little longer. Painting is too labor intensive, and big investment to try to cut corners on quality, life of paint job. I'm 73, and with my, just turned 58..OMG..oldest daughter, we are embarking on our latest "Lucy and Ethel" adventure. I'm buying a good sized paint sprayer for lastest go 'round on rentals, fences. Trying to absorb info on machines, process, etc. to keep experiences more enjoyable, competitive, silly goofs rather than aggravating machine related issues.

Yes, I was that young! Weren't we Lucky!!!

NOOOOOOOOO, they can't!!!!!! And, apparently every professional painter knows this about Sherwin-Williams!!!!!! They could match in the little color sample, but when my painter got the same Benjamin Moore colors in Sherwin-Williams gallons, the colors were all HIDEOUSLY DIFFERENT!!!! I had to eat some $2500 in paint because of their misrepresentation of their ability to color-match Ben Moore colors!!!!! DON"T BELIEVE that S-W can do this successfully. Their bases are different from Ben Moore's, so the Ben Moore colors DON'T match at ALL!!!!!!! And, I'm out $2500..... EXTREMELY UNHAPPY!!!!!!!!!!

True Cheri, we tell clients that because the base is different, it's impossible for the formula to come out the same when using a different brand.

It can vary from a little bit off, to extremely "off"!

Also, it's smart to keep paint cans, or at least the label. That way you have the sheen (satin, eggshell etc), the type paint, etc.

Happy Painting!

My painter wants to paint my exterior with Sherwin Williams resilience and I currently have Benjamin Moore duxbury grey now questioning the ability to properly color match . He said it's not a problem and does it all the time.

I have yet to experience a color match between different brands and I've used them all. Each manufacturer has their own formula for their bases (otherwise why bother to have so many paint manufacturers) that makes their colors their own. Some bases may have more blue or yellow, etc in them than another manufacturer which changes the color that you truly want.

Your painter is telling you this because he is dealing with that particular paint store and probably is getting a discount on the paint, which he is not passing onto you, and he has an account set up. It's all for his convenience and not for what you really want. Also, if you are trying to match some existing exterior paint that is staying on the exterior, weather conditions will have changed that color to some extent so even if you go with the same brand it still may not properly match so that would be two strikes before you even begin to paint. Tell the painter that you will pick up the BM paint yourself. And when you do, mention to the salesperson that your painter doesn't use BM brand but you insisted that you wanted to use it and are wondering if you could get the contractors discounted price. I've found that they will usually give me some discount. And if your painter is not willing to work with you on this, you will just have to decide what is more important...him or the paint color..

Thank you ! The paint is worked into the price so can't really get it myself,but I will talk to him about using Benjamin Moore instead. He said he likes the Sherwin Williams resilience because my 16 yr old paint job is peeling with some chalking and he said reason is the previous BM moorguard ( now regal select) is more likely to get chalky.
My house is also 60 years old and only peeling on the older part of the home which gets a lot of sun and where we had some ice dam issues a few years back.
The newer part of the house still looks good even after 16 years

Some other thoughts.

Since he is saying that it will match, tell him to get a SW qt of it (or do it yourself) and paint a sample area onto your exterior. Then you can really see how well it matches. I'd also go talk to BM about your peeling and chalking and see what they have to say about it as you may find it is a non-issue with their current paint.

Every painter I've talked to and hired are partial to a particular brand and will come up with some type of reason to why you should use the brand they want you to but the majority of the time after I've done my own research, I find that there is not justification to what they tell me.

"The paint is worked into the price so can't really get it myself,". - if he won't get the BM paint and that is the way you want to go, then ask him to requote the job without the paint. He can get the BM for you but he probably doesn't get the discount like he does with the SW and my $20 bucks says he is not passing that discount onto you. I just had interior rooms painted where I used 2 different brands of paint as those brands had the perfect colors and why bother messing with trying to match. Neither brand the painter used and he gave me a bunch of "reasons" as to why SW his preferred brand was better. Come to find out through my own research, he had bad credit with the paint stores and couldn't get credit to charge the paint on except the SW store. I had him requote it with me purchasing the paint.

Thanks so much Ted! All awesome suggestions . Really appreciate your input

You are welcome. One other thing. It sounds like your project may be more than 5 gallons. Ask the painter if he is purchasing the paint in 5 gallon containers rather than 1 gallon. Price runs the same as if you purchased 5 one gallons. Or at the very least, he should blend 5 one gallons into a 5 gallon container. A really good professional will use either of these methods as paint can vary just a bit even if it is the same brand/formula. It's weird but I've had that happen. Good luck with your project.

And yes 10-12 gallons paint for the house and probably 2 for the trim

I am a general painting contractor I'm Maine.Both commercial and residential. I solely use Ben Moore paints and stains for cost and matching.Premierpaintr@yahoo.com 2078527050. 30 yrs. of experience.

I used to just go to the specific store for the specific paint color, but now I usually just go to Lowes or Home Depot and have them match it. They do a great job. It's true going to BM for BM color you know it will be the exact color, but sometimes I just need to save some money. have a contractor who will only use SW, so he's going to match it.

I use to color match with HD but found that it still can vary from the original brand color and very difficult down the road to rematch that HD gallon if I needed to get another gallon to match. Especially if HD changes their formula just a bit. If looking to save $$ best to find a color by that specific brand.

So interesting you've all had a good experience with BM color matching others. I've been into BM twice trying to get a match to a Behr color (sample, codes, and swatch) with no luck. Theirs keeps coming out darker and muddier (?) than the original. :( frustrating bc I fell in love with the Behr color (on left) but really want to use BM Advance for my cabinets!

Can Sherwin Williams really color match Benjamin Moore Paint colors?

The answer is yes and no. It totally, 100% depends on the color. Specifically between BenM and SW, colors that belong to the yellow hue family typically cross between these two brands rather well.

The near neutrals people like to categorize as "gray" and "greige" as well as colors of white can be a different story.

There is more than one way to mix the same color. In other words, there is more than one combination of colorants that will result in colors with reflectance curves that are so similar that it's impossible for anyone with above-average color vision to tell that the paint color formulas were not identical. It's all figured out using color measurements (color DNA).

People get waaaaayyyy too wrapped around the axel of bases and colorants. The only thing that matters is what the color looks like when it's dry - the actual formula is completely irrelevant. It's actually very simple and straightforward - either a color can be made using some combination of a brands base(s) and colorants or it can't.

The only way YOU can know if YOUR color is possible in a different brand is to get a sample or quart mixed and measure it and look at it.

It's 2018 and no one, especially color professionals, should be struggling with this question or debating whether it can or can't be done. If you're a color pro, you should own a Color Muse and you should be measuring the matches for accuracy. If the match between the chip and the custom mix is greater than a Delta E of 0.80 (ish), then don't accept it, don't buy the paint. (A Delta E of 0.80 is my personal tolerance. YMMV)

If the store is not able to successfully match another brands color by meeting a reasonable Delta E standard, you're not obligated to buy the paint. At that point, you can choose to accept the match for what it is or go buy the color in its home paint brand. NBD

Anybody can buy a Color Muse on Amazon. The Color Muse app is free. The steps to follow are simple. They may be slightly different depending the device you're using.

1. Connect your device.
2. Choose "Inspect" in the lower left (triangle icon)
3. Tap "Options" select the "d65 Lab" color space. Tap "options" again to close.
4. Scan your target, control paint chip in the first panel
5. Scan a dry drawdown of the custom mixed match in the second panel.

The Delta E window should be green indicating a color match. Here's what it looks like. I just had Laura Ashley Gold 4 color matched for a forum friend the other day.

Please provide any feedback you may have on what would make the service more useful.

@PaintHunter, Ok. You asked. :) As is, I would never use that website and would strongly advise anyone from using it. The RGB color space has nothing to do with paint colors. If you switched your platform to LCh and CIELAB values it would use the same template of color data values as paint color formulas and hand-held colorimeters - so the numbers would actually mean something and be useful. RGB values and various formats of the RGB color space, like HSB, do not have a dimension of lightness which is why it's meaningless in terms of arch coatings, 3-d built environ and human vision; the RGB color space is applicable to graphics like Photoshop and printing but not the built environment. However, I might include hex codes just because designers use hex codes to make paint blobs for mood boards and presentations.

In order to be legit, you need to qualify how the values were captured, how the colors were measured. i.e. D65 illuminant, 2 degree observer, benchtop spectro and brand, etc.

I attempted to have SW match BM Simply White this week. The SW version had a greenish tint once on the walls. Thankfully, we had only done one room, but I proceeded to test on it every wall in the house (we were painting the entire space simply white). Green tinge still came through. I started wondering how I could expect the colors to match as SW has different white tints they’re using to mix the color even though they have a computer app on how much red, yellow, etc., to add. I drove to BM and bought a sample to test. The BW sample was exactly what a wanted...no green tint. I bought all BM and it’s exactly what I expected. Pay the extra $ and get the color you truly want. It’s an expensive lesson!

I had the same problem with BM Simply White! After seeing this color throughout a parade home last year, I had my heart set on it. It showed as a beautiful pure, but not stark, white in that home. When my contractor asked for my color selections he asked if it was OK to color match to SW. I said "no problem," as I had done this many times before with other colors. I never dreamed it could turn out as badly as it did. My ENTIRE house AND ceilings were painted this color before I saw it and realized how bad it was. To me the SW version of Simply White looks like buttered popcorn and in some lights it appears to be a greenish yellow. YUCK.

So now I'm paying the "dumb tax" with this mistake, big time. Today I have someone repainting every ceiling in my house, and this weekend I'll be repainting every wall in the entire house - all at my expense. Lesson learned - I'll NEVER color match again.

The cabinet in the below photo is painted BM White Dove. The walls are the SW-mixed Simply White. Simply White is supposed to be a brighter white than White Dove. You can really see how cream/yellow the SW mixed Simply White looks here.

Here is my SW mixed Simply White ceiling next to a white LED recessed light with and a chip of SW Extra White - the color we are repainting everything.

Wow I am the third person here to learn my lesson about trusting my painters to color match my request for BM Simply White with their SW dealer. Unfortunately two whole floors have been already been painted and I didn't discover the problem until I painted a door myself and closed it to reveal the problem next to their SW trim. SW is indeed a murky green next to the BM's lovely marshmellow white. The easiest option will be to have them repaint everything I've done with their gross version rather than to have us move out again to redo the whole house. Now I can't stop seeing the SW tinge and I'm absolutely gutted over this mess. Wish I had researched this beforehand!

I asked my painter to paint my kitchen in SW Passive color but my painter showed up with the BM color match the SW Passive. I appreciate they used BM which is a much better paint in terms of quality, but once they put the paint on the wall, it showed a lot more green than my original sample color I got from SW. I don't think you get 100% of color match. In my case, it makes a big difference.

As always, I defer to Lori Sawaya in all things color. As should you. But I will add my 2c about SW matches of Ben Moore colors. They will struggle with many of the lighter colors, whites and near-whites, because the SW base is already darker than Ben Moore's BEFORE any tint is added. Thus, if you are trying to reproduce a very light color, you have that to contend with.

In particular, I have never seen SW match Simply White. I've had to go on several calls because of it. The SW version comes out looking more yellow-green than the Ben Moore color - no big surprise here because of the SW Extra White base. Extra White is at 113 degrees on the Lch color wheel (Green-Yellow hue family), with a lightness of 94.4. Remember, this is just the plain base.

Yet Ben Moore's Simply White color is only at 106.6 degrees (Yellow family) with a lightness of 95.6. You can't make a white base any whiter, and you can't overcome a yellow-green tinge except by adding a certain amount of pigment... which of course, would make the color darker.

It's possible SW could match Simply White in their High Reflective White base. I can't say definitively, because I've not seen it attempted. But mechanically, it ain't happening in their Extra White base.

In order to match a color you have to have a drawdown of the paint you are matching and not a printed chip. Not one paint company colors match their chips.

Not one paint company colors match their chips.

This is not accurate.

Paint chips are NOT printed.

There isn't a "printing" system on the plant that is capable of reproducing all the colors you see in a fandeck with ink.

Paint chips are painted with a special lacquer based paint that dries quickly.

The large chips you order directly from the paint manufacturer are especially reliable.

The idea that you have to have hand-painted samples in order to get the *real* color has been perpetuated by bloggers for years. And everybody just keeps copying the same bad information over and over without checking the facts.

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roMJblx9FBM

Just want to chime in with one newbie observation in my very limited experience: chain paint stores tend to have the cheapest, crappiest lighting overhead, which can really one's perception of paint color (chip or otherwise). Same goes for many tile stores. Do not judge colors under those lights unless you plan to install that same lighting in your home.

We will still do the draw downs for our matches. I am the unlucky guy with the wrong light source occasionally.

match bengamin Moore palace green

@lori Sawaya - what’s the name of the video you linked above? I’d like to find it, but it’s saying not available.
Thanks!

Pretty sure it was the "How It's Made Paint Chip Cards" episode. https://youtu.be/yeErw3qlF8s

Thank you everyone for this post. I had BM match Ralph Lauren Deep Cream which came out more yellow and I have never been happy for years. I will no loner color match and choose a brand based on the paint color I like. Also batches differ even with the same brand so best to for each room, have the exact batch for that room in the same mixed can.

I love BM Mayonnaise in my last home. This time our contractor used SW and said it could match it. Well, it did NOT and is noticably more yellow instrad of a warm white. Really a bummer emotionally and financially. I told my husband and contractor I wanted BM and they were wrong. Had I only read this before, I'd have been VERY insistent. I'll likely pay for a repaint with BM paint. Mansplaining got the BEST of me!

the ability to see color with the human eye is a spectrum thing, as is the in-ability to see color, which is often called color blindness. statistically, women usually have keener color vision on average than men. it's not an all or nothing thing, some folks are blessed (or cursed) with very keen color vision and can actually see shades of red most humans can't see. talk to an artist if you know one, they will enlighten. or a musician with perfect pitch. same goes for taste; senses are funny things - it's all neurological. also, illness, age and drugs can effect color vision as well as depression and anxiety. sometimes professional painters have keen color vision, and often their vision is average; they rely on charts and numbers and most of their clients can't tell the difference. but for those who really care about color, well... if you really care about color and can afford the BM you should use it because it is cheaper in the long run than painting twice. and if you can't afford it you should use a color that you like second best from another source. all of this after you have lived with a sample on the exact wall where it will go, in the sheen that you desire. because these things all matter. it's both the bases and the pigments that will effect the color of paint you get. as well as the subtrate you are painting on. even 3 coats over a black is going to be very different than 3 coats over a white. all these things matter.

No, in many cases you will not get a perfect match between a BM paint to a SW. and you will not be happy trying to match high end paint colors with cheap big box paint. High end paint has more pigment and not lots of fillers. Fillers quickly dry out as the paint cures and ends up on the floor not on the wall so color changes. In many cases you might not notice a big difference in many of the colors but do on the more complicated colors. — I find many men don’t pick up on the difference. And too as the comment above stated — the perception of the color is so dependent on so many criteria. A few not mentioned is lighting from the sun, moonlight and artificial lighting. Sunlight angles changes all day through out the year. In the summer the sun is higher in the sky, in winter its lower in the sky. This affects its coming into the room. Overcast days really affect it. Then there are other items in the room such as upholstery, carpet, etc which can make a difference in perception of what’s on the wall. Height and width of the room, even green plants or flowering plants. I read an article once about why many people who loved pale colors like baby blues, bubblegum pink etc and hate the golds, oranges, etc when they are young but they reach 40-50s and and brighter but still mild colors start appealing and by time they get to 60-70s, they love orange, red, purple, gold. It has to do with the cones in our eyes. Then there is also the sun orientation — East, West, north and south. My living room is north/east. My house sits so each corner is a different orientation. And my living room is cold feeling and looking. I painted the walls pink or coral and it’s like the room is 10 degrees warmer. Trees outside the room will make a big difference as the leaves change as the wind moves the branches about and dappling changes. Even clouds can affect the color. To me it’s these changes during the day that make a paint color so dynamic.

@Lori A. Sawaya- thats interesting and reassuring-. i do however need to paint bigger swatches for myself to see it in my light all throughout the day- etc . it does look different to me when painted larger than on the paint chip- i dont know why that happens but it does.