Germany is busy reversing course, building coal plants, and stopping subsidies to Solar and Wind.
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Tesla Powerwall in Australia: Electricity bill dives from $660 to $50
- Thread starter ScienceRocks
- Start date
Lewdog
Gold Member
Your answer, to use more Oil, faster, and in greater quantities, is not a solution but a problem, so what you goin to do when you use up all the Oil? You Wind Turbine will die in the field, you Solar Panel will cease to be replaced and maintained as they burn up. You have no answers, only ridicule. I get it, everyone can see it, if they read these posts.REALLY? When oil is gone life is over? That's your answer?
Dude, you are not giving numbers as to the energy quotient, for the amount of energy produced over the life time for a solar panel compared the amount of energy used to produce them, or the amount of pollution created by the creation of the panels verses the amount of pollution created by the equivalent amount of energy produced by coal as to that created by the solar panel over its lifetime.
You are the one that is ridiculing answers, while providing no alternative answers other than, "When the oil is gone we die." that's ignorance at it's best.
Does that mean they are worthwhile, or not?The theoretical maximum efficiency for a solar module, of any era, is 24%. No module has ever even come close to that. My panels are producing around 9% efficiency as i check my meter, that is pretty good. Usually it is in the 7% range. They are old however. Modern modules are going to give you 13% on the low end up to 18% on the high end.
Everything I've read about Germany's progress in this area has been positive. What do you know about that example?
Germany is slowly abandoning solar. They are building some new coal fired power plants because the people are tired of freezing in the winter. I built my system over 25 years ago and I was off the grid at the time so it made perfect sense to do so. Since then the grid has built out to where I am so i am now tied to it. Solar works good for very limited things. It does not work when scaled up to industrial levels. It just doesn't. It will power your home when the grid fails though and for that reason alone I think it is worthwhile to have a system. Yes, there are savings, but when I calculate in the time I spend cleaning and maintaining them it isn't really all that great over all.
Last edited:
Bro, you have not given an answer, a number, or even an argument, that is ignorance, as you describe. I am challenging you to support the assertion you claimed, that you claimed first. Why is it that you get to make an unsubstantiated claim? Certainly there is no greater example of ignorance. I have not, "ridiculed answers", YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN AN ANSWER TO RIDICULE!Dude, you are not giving numbers as to the energy quotient, for the amount of energy produced over the life time for a solar panel compared the amount of energy used to produce them, or the amount of pollution created by the creation of the panels verses the amount of pollution created by the equivalent amount of energy produced by coal as to that created by the solar panel over its lifetime.
You are the one that is ridiculing answers, while providing no alternative answers other than, "When the oil is gone we die." that's ignorance at it's best.
leftwinger
Diamond Member
The earth seems to be producing more and more oil all the time (nat gas too?).
Ask Matthew and OldRocks how all those solar cells work out up in ORE (no sun most of the year). Yes I know about the Willamette valley I-5 up to Portland.
Ask Matthew and OldRocks how all those solar cells work out up in ORE (no sun most of the year). Yes I know about the Willamette valley I-5 up to Portland.
leftwinger
Diamond Member
I was in Asia very nearby the equator for many many months. It was incredibly hot.
But I don't remember seeing much sun? Kind of a low cloud cover all the time? like a mist? you sweat as soon as you leave the A/C buildings. Wet heat.
Did not see much solar.........what happened to sunshine?
But I don't remember seeing much sun? Kind of a low cloud cover all the time? like a mist? you sweat as soon as you leave the A/C buildings. Wet heat.
Did not see much solar.........what happened to sunshine?
Oregon burns garbage to make electricity and imports electricity made with Coal from Wyoming. Oregon's governor resigned office for taking bribes from the Wind and Solar industry.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
In Texas, Austin Energy signed a deal this spring for 20 years of output from a solar farm at less than 5 cents a kilowatt-hour. In September, the Grand River Dam Authority in Oklahoma announced its approval of a new agreement to buy power from a new wind farm expected to be completed next year. Grand River estimated the deal would save its customers roughly $50 million from the project.Tesla Powerwall in Australia: Electricity bill dives from $660 to $50
Quote
It is nice to see Telsa fucking big corporate energy in the ass!WHEN self-confessed nerd Nick Pfitzner became the first Australia resident to have a Tesla Powerwall installed, he expected to save some money when his electricity bill arrived.
However, he was shocked to discover just how efficient the highly anticipated home battery power storage unit had been.
After receiving his latest electricity bill in the post, Mr Pfitzner was pleased to see the amount to be paid was a mere $50.39 (Incl. GST).
Compare this to his previous bill for the same quarter last year and Mr Pfitzner was facing a bill totalling $660.77 (Incl. GST), which means his family had a saving more than 90 per cent.
“It’s an awesome feeling to see we are only paying an average of just $0.59 per day for our power usage,” he told news.com.au.
“I knew it would save me money, but I had never expected to see a saving that big.”
Each Powerwall has a 7 kWh energy storage capacity and works by using a solar panel to convert sunlight into electricity that charges the device.
“The inverter converts direct current electricity from solar panels, the grid and Powerwall into the alternating current used by your home’s lights, appliances and devices,” the website states.
I find it strange that the oil and coal companies could have been the ones leading the way to new clean renewables and would now be in the position to dominate the new emerging markets for this energy which will soon be the entire human race as prices continue to drop precipitously for renewable energy types, but they chose the 'we're lazy and don't want to do any more work than sucking stuff out of the ground and getting paid for it' path.
They are dinosaurs now and will fade into history, bitching and screaming the whole way no doubt but even they know their days are numbered.
Tesla just invented the steamboat and all the makers of sails are complaining about losing their jobs. Capitalism is a bitch for the slow and the dead, id'n it.
You might do some research on the subject of solar energy before declaring oil companies dinosaurs. The technology/pricing is a long way off from being on par with fossil fuels, and the only thing driving people to install panels here are the subsidies. Sorry fig newton, capitalism is a bitch, and solar can't compete right now.
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Continue reading the main story
And, also in Oklahoma, American Electric Power ended up tripling the amount of wind power it had originally sought after seeing how low the bids came in last year.
“Wind was on sale — it was a Blue Light Special,” said Jay Godfrey, managing director of renewable energy for the company. He noted that Oklahoma, unlike many states, did not require utilities to buy power from renewable sources.
“We were doing it because it made sense for our ratepayers,” he said.
According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0
Solar and wind have already won the price contest.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
No, orders of magnitude are powers of ten. Ten, exponent 3 is 3 orders of magnitude.Your claim is about three orders of magnitude too high.How big is his solar panel? And what is the overall cost of his storage bank?
Jimmy Carter was pushing solar energy. He put panels on the roof of the White House and Reagan removed them. If Carter's plan had been carried through I wonder where it would have gone by now.
Those panels were incredibly inefficient compared to those produced today. What if the government stopped giving money to companies like Solyndra, that was over $500 billion by the way, and gave it to scientist to actually advance the research to improve the technology. So.ar can provide a large amount of energy for the world, but the government needs to approach it likesendi g a man to the moon and stop tying to support companies, instead support research and development.
Solyndra - Wikipedia
Solyndra received a $535 million U.S. Energy Department loan guarantee, the first recipient of a loan guarantee under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus program, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.[22] By 2014 the loan program had wiped out its losses, including a $528 million loss from Solyndra, and was operating in the black.[23] Additionally, Solyndra received a $25.1 million tax break from California's Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority.[24]
Following the bankruptcy, the government was expected to recoup $27 million under the Solyndra restructuring plan, or up to 100% of loaned funds from a $1.5 billion lawsuit filed against Chinese solar-panel makers for alleged price fixing.[2] The outcome of the lawsuits were that: In November 2015 Yingli Green Energy Holding Co Ltd. settled a claim filed by Solyndra for $7.5 million; in April 2016 Trina Solar Ltd. settled a claim filed by Solyndra for $45 million; as of April 2016, Solyndra's suit against Suntech Power Holdings Co Ltd. has not yet settled.[25]
Typo on my part, I meant millions, and that is not 3 0rders of magnitude, it's 1000. Guess we were both wrong
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Elektra, flipping burgers doesn't make enough money for you to be paying for anyone's subsidies. Those subsidies take the load off the grid, and that benefits us all in extreme cold or hot weather.Those tax deductions are for anyone that chooses to use them. You can also get tax deductions for putting in better insulation in your home, energy efficient windows, and other such home improvements. Get over yourself. You aren't paying for everyone else.
Wrong, I pay for them, and it is not just a tax deduction you get, you get a subsidy. The solar companies get subsidies, the money you get from the utility is a subsidy, somebody pays for those subsidies. That someone is me.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Toxic mess that lithium battery production creates? Links? Or is this more of your usual lies.What kind of price can you put on saving the world's environment? Even if it was a wash, you get two distinct benefits, first you are helping the environment, and secondly you are no longer grid dependent and have to worry if someone knocks down an electric pole that your electricity will be out for a couple of days.
You seem to ignore the toxic mess that lithium battery production leaves behind. Nothing in life is free. No matter what you do to create energy there is a cost.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Does that mean they are worthwhile, or not?The theoretical maximum efficiency for a solar module, of any era, is 24%. No module has ever even come close to that. My panels are producing around 9% efficiency as i check my meter, that is pretty good. Usually it is in the 7% range. They are old however. Modern modules are going to give you 13% on the low end up to 18% on the high end.
Everything I've read about Germany's progress in this area has been positive. What do you know about that example?
Germany is slowly abandoning solar. They are building some new coal fired power plants because the people are tired of freezing in the winter. I built my system over 25 years ago and I was off the grid at the time so it made perfect sense to do so. Since then the grid has built out to where I am so i am now tied to it. Solar works good for very limited things. It does not work when scaled up to industrial levels. It just doesn't. It will power your home when the grid fails though and for that reason alone I think it is worthwhile to have a system. Yes, there are savings, but when I calculate in the time I spend cleaning and maintaining them it isn't really all that great over all.
What a liar Mr. Westwall is.
Cheapest Solar Ever: Austin Energy Gets 1.2 Gigawatts of Solar Bids for Less Than 4 Cents
Cheapest Solar Ever: Austin Energy Gets 1.2 Gigawatts of Solar Bids for Less Than 4 Cents
“We expect to see prices out in the future that are possibly below $20 a megawatt-hour.”
by Stephen Lacey
June 30, 2015
“We expect to see prices out in the future that are possibly below $20 a megawatt-hour.”
by Stephen Lacey
June 30, 2015
84
- Correction: Khalil Shalabi said was that 1,295 megawatts were priced below the Recurrent solar deal from last year, which was under 5 cents per kilowatt-hour not under 4 cents per kilowatt-hour.
A lot more cheap solar is coming for Austin, Texas.
The city's utility, Austin Energy, just released new data on developer bids for PV projects as part of a 600-megawatt procurement. The numbers show how far solar prices have come down over the last year -- and will continue to drop.
According to Khalil Shalabi, Austin Energy's vice president of resource planning, the utility received offers for 7,976 megawatts of projects after issuing a request for bids in April. Out of those bids, 1,295 megawatts of projects were priced below 4 cents per kilowatt-hour.
That is all based on the Lazard study, which was easily debunked. But, the biggest elephant in the room is, Wind does not work and never will. On an industrial scale, it always fails to deliver, the cost is too high.In Texas, Austin Energy signed a deal this spring for 20 years of output from a solar farm at less than 5 cents a kilowatt-hour. In September, the Grand River Dam Authority in Oklahoma announced its approval of a new agreement to buy power from a new wind farm expected to be completed next year. Grand River estimated the deal would save its customers roughly $50 million from the project.Tesla Powerwall in Australia: Electricity bill dives from $660 to $50
Quote
It is nice to see Telsa fucking big corporate energy in the ass!WHEN self-confessed nerd Nick Pfitzner became the first Australia resident to have a Tesla Powerwall installed, he expected to save some money when his electricity bill arrived.
However, he was shocked to discover just how efficient the highly anticipated home battery power storage unit had been.
After receiving his latest electricity bill in the post, Mr Pfitzner was pleased to see the amount to be paid was a mere $50.39 (Incl. GST).
Compare this to his previous bill for the same quarter last year and Mr Pfitzner was facing a bill totalling $660.77 (Incl. GST), which means his family had a saving more than 90 per cent.
“It’s an awesome feeling to see we are only paying an average of just $0.59 per day for our power usage,” he told news.com.au.
“I knew it would save me money, but I had never expected to see a saving that big.”
Each Powerwall has a 7 kWh energy storage capacity and works by using a solar panel to convert sunlight into electricity that charges the device.
“The inverter converts direct current electricity from solar panels, the grid and Powerwall into the alternating current used by your home’s lights, appliances and devices,” the website states.
I find it strange that the oil and coal companies could have been the ones leading the way to new clean renewables and would now be in the position to dominate the new emerging markets for this energy which will soon be the entire human race as prices continue to drop precipitously for renewable energy types, but they chose the 'we're lazy and don't want to do any more work than sucking stuff out of the ground and getting paid for it' path.
They are dinosaurs now and will fade into history, bitching and screaming the whole way no doubt but even they know their days are numbered.
Tesla just invented the steamboat and all the makers of sails are complaining about losing their jobs. Capitalism is a bitch for the slow and the dead, id'n it.
You might do some research on the subject of solar energy before declaring oil companies dinosaurs. The technology/pricing is a long way off from being on par with fossil fuels, and the only thing driving people to install panels here are the subsidies. Sorry fig newton, capitalism is a bitch, and solar can't compete right now.
Advertisement
Continue reading the main story
And, also in Oklahoma, American Electric Power ended up tripling the amount of wind power it had originally sought after seeing how low the bids came in last year.
“Wind was on sale — it was a Blue Light Special,” said Jay Godfrey, managing director of renewable energy for the company. He noted that Oklahoma, unlike many states, did not require utilities to buy power from renewable sources.
“We were doing it because it made sense for our ratepayers,” he said.
According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0
Solar and wind have already won the price contest.
$44 Trillion is to be spent, at least that is what they state today. Not a bargain for the price.
Your a liar, you lied about the price of the powerwall, now you are lying about taking the load off the grid. If that was the case, why does Oregon burn garbage to make electricity or why does Oregon import power made from Coal in Wyoming? You never prove any of your crazy lies Old Crock, you have not the intelligence to do anything but link to the first paid advertisement in a google search. How about telling us the total price the U.S. has spent on Renewables, I bet you won't even be honest about the cost. Go ahead, answer any of the questions you always ignore.Elektra, flipping burgers doesn't make enough money for you to be paying for anyone's subsidies. Those subsidies take the load off the grid, and that benefits us all in extreme cold or hot weather.Those tax deductions are for anyone that chooses to use them. You can also get tax deductions for putting in better insulation in your home, energy efficient windows, and other such home improvements. Get over yourself. You aren't paying for everyone else.
Wrong, I pay for them, and it is not just a tax deduction you get, you get a subsidy. The solar companies get subsidies, the money you get from the utility is a subsidy, somebody pays for those subsidies. That someone is me.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Elektra, Oregon imports electricity from Wyoming because the Californians paid for the windmills, therefore get the power they produce. Also gets much of the power from our dams on the Columbia.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Energy & Environment
Texas Is Wired for Wind Power, and More Farms Plug In
By MATTHEW L. WALDJULY 23, 2014
Continue reading the main story Share This Page
Continue reading the main story
Slide Show|10 Photos
Turning Wind Into Electricity
Turning Wind Into Electricity
CreditDavid Bowser for The New York Times
PANHANDLE, Tex. — The wind is so relentless that a week can go by before it is calm enough for a crane operator to install the 30-ton blades atop the 260-foot towers at the Panhandle 2 wind farm here. It’s worth the wait; a single turbine at the farm can produce 40 percent more energy than an average one.
But turning wind into electricity is one thing; moving the energy to a profitable market is another. For years, the wind industry has been hampered by such a severe lack of transmission lines that when the wind is strong, a local power surplus forces some machines to be shut down.
Now, Texas is out to change that by conducting a vast experiment that might hold lessons for the rest of the United States. This year, a sprawling network of new high-voltage power lines was completed, tying the panhandle area and West Texas to the millions of customers around Dallas-Fort Worth, Austin and Houston.
The project, its supporters say, is essential if states are ever to wean their reliance on fossil fuels and meet new federally mandated rules to reduce carbon emissions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/b...ed-for-wind-power-and-more-farms-plug-in.html
A Texas Utility Offers a Nighttime Special: Free Electricity
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS and DIANE CARDWELLNOV. 8, 2015
DALLAS — In Texas, wind farms are generating so much energy that some utilities are giving power away.
Briana Lamb, an elementary school teacher, waits until her watch strikes 9 p.m. to run her washing machine and dishwasher. It costs her nothing until 6 a.m. Kayleen Willard, a cosmetologist, unplugs appliances when she goes to work in the morning. By 9 p.m., she has them plugged back in.
And Sherri Burks, business manager of a local law firm, keeps a yellow sticker on her townhouse’s thermostat, a note to guests that says: “After 9 p.m. I don’t care what you do. You can party after 9.”
The women are just three of the thousands of TXU Energy customers who are at the vanguard of a bold attempt by the utility to change how people consume energy. TXU’s free overnight plan, which is coupled with slightly higher daytime rates, is one of dozens that have been offered by more than 50 retail electricity companies in Texas over the last three years with a simple goal: for customers to turn down the dials when wholesale prices are highest and turn them back up when prices are lowest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/09/b...ers-a-nighttime-special-free-electricity.html
Now if you had 5 of the 10 kw/hr Powerwalls, you could run your home on that free electricity. The average home uses about 32 kw/hr of electricity a day. So 50 kw/hr would give you a days worth of normal use, with an excess in case of need. The combination of grid scale storage, and home storage will make the grid far more robust, and the homeowner far more independent of the utility.
Texas Is Wired for Wind Power, and More Farms Plug In
By MATTHEW L. WALDJULY 23, 2014
Continue reading the main story Share This Page
Continue reading the main story
- Share
- Tweet
- More
- Save
Slide Show|10 Photos
Turning Wind Into Electricity
Turning Wind Into Electricity
CreditDavid Bowser for The New York Times
PANHANDLE, Tex. — The wind is so relentless that a week can go by before it is calm enough for a crane operator to install the 30-ton blades atop the 260-foot towers at the Panhandle 2 wind farm here. It’s worth the wait; a single turbine at the farm can produce 40 percent more energy than an average one.
But turning wind into electricity is one thing; moving the energy to a profitable market is another. For years, the wind industry has been hampered by such a severe lack of transmission lines that when the wind is strong, a local power surplus forces some machines to be shut down.
Now, Texas is out to change that by conducting a vast experiment that might hold lessons for the rest of the United States. This year, a sprawling network of new high-voltage power lines was completed, tying the panhandle area and West Texas to the millions of customers around Dallas-Fort Worth, Austin and Houston.
The project, its supporters say, is essential if states are ever to wean their reliance on fossil fuels and meet new federally mandated rules to reduce carbon emissions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/b...ed-for-wind-power-and-more-farms-plug-in.html
A Texas Utility Offers a Nighttime Special: Free Electricity
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS and DIANE CARDWELLNOV. 8, 2015
DALLAS — In Texas, wind farms are generating so much energy that some utilities are giving power away.
Briana Lamb, an elementary school teacher, waits until her watch strikes 9 p.m. to run her washing machine and dishwasher. It costs her nothing until 6 a.m. Kayleen Willard, a cosmetologist, unplugs appliances when she goes to work in the morning. By 9 p.m., she has them plugged back in.
And Sherri Burks, business manager of a local law firm, keeps a yellow sticker on her townhouse’s thermostat, a note to guests that says: “After 9 p.m. I don’t care what you do. You can party after 9.”
The women are just three of the thousands of TXU Energy customers who are at the vanguard of a bold attempt by the utility to change how people consume energy. TXU’s free overnight plan, which is coupled with slightly higher daytime rates, is one of dozens that have been offered by more than 50 retail electricity companies in Texas over the last three years with a simple goal: for customers to turn down the dials when wholesale prices are highest and turn them back up when prices are lowest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/09/b...ers-a-nighttime-special-free-electricity.html
Now if you had 5 of the 10 kw/hr Powerwalls, you could run your home on that free electricity. The average home uses about 32 kw/hr of electricity a day. So 50 kw/hr would give you a days worth of normal use, with an excess in case of need. The combination of grid scale storage, and home storage will make the grid far more robust, and the homeowner far more independent of the utility.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
The full cost of a 10 kw/hr Tesla Powerwall.
SolarCity Reveals Installed Pricing For Tesla Powerwall
For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140, Bass said.”
Solar City will begin installations of Powerwall this October.
SolarCity Reveals Installed Pricing For Tesla Powerwall
For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140, Bass said.”
Solar City will begin installations of Powerwall this October.
Lewdog
Gold Member
Your a liar, you lied about the price of the powerwall, now you are lying about taking the load off the grid. If that was the case, why does Oregon burn garbage to make electricity or why does Oregon import power made from Coal in Wyoming? You never prove any of your crazy lies Old Crock, you have not the intelligence to do anything but link to the first paid advertisement in a google search. How about telling us the total price the U.S. has spent on Renewables, I bet you won't even be honest about the cost. Go ahead, answer any of the questions you always ignore.Elektra, flipping burgers doesn't make enough money for you to be paying for anyone's subsidies. Those subsidies take the load off the grid, and that benefits us all in extreme cold or hot weather.Those tax deductions are for anyone that chooses to use them. You can also get tax deductions for putting in better insulation in your home, energy efficient windows, and other such home improvements. Get over yourself. You aren't paying for everyone else.
Wrong, I pay for them, and it is not just a tax deduction you get, you get a subsidy. The solar companies get subsidies, the money you get from the utility is a subsidy, somebody pays for those subsidies. That someone is me.
Really? Coming from the same guy that said when the oil is gone we all die?
I am happy that you only address me, personally. That shows that is your only response, you can not answer any question I pose to you. Thank you for confirming what I posted.Really? Coming from the same guy that said when the oil is gone we all die?
Use the link that this thread is based upon, that you agreed with, that you argued in favor of. The price is $15k, according the link you "agree" with you.The full cost of a 10 kw/hr Tesla Powerwall.
SolarCity Reveals Installed Pricing For Tesla Powerwall
For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140, Bass said.”
Solar City will begin installations of Powerwall this October.
Old Crock, you really are complete fucking moron.
What this bill shows us about Tesla’s Powerwall
When installation of the $13,950 Tesla Powerwall was announced, many questioned if the savings would be worth the initial investment.
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