NEW YORK – Tucked into the back corner of SoHo House in Manhattan, Adrian Ballinger and Cory Richards look more like Brooklyn hipsters than two elite athletes who’ve just returned from climbing the world’s tallest mountain.

Skinny, verging on gaunt, the duo is just days removed from their second attempt at climbing Everest without using supplemental oxygen. In 2016, Richards made the summit without using supplemental O2, while Ballinger had to turn around just shy of reaching the peak. In May of this year, both climbing partners reached the top, Ballinger without using supplemental O2, and Richards with, and documented the entire journey of their Snapchat account, Everest No Filter.

For Ballinger, it was the culmination of a lifelong dream that pushed his body to extremes, and something he couldn’t have accomplished without Richards at his side.

For The Win caught up with the alpinists who are sponsored by Eddie Bauer and Strava, for a free flowing conversation on the politics of Everest, climbing while depressed and why reaching the summit wasn’t actually a joyous event.

Adrian Ballinger and Cory Richards

FTW: Cory, last year you said that reaching the summit felt incomplete because Adrian wasn’t with you. What was it like on the summit together?

ADRIAN:  I actually don’t remember most of it.  I remember, the last hour of the push, crying a lot because I knew I was going to make it, and I remember that being really intense, and then I got to the top, and I was so focused on taking a snap, because that hadn’t happened last year, and then all I wanted was to go.

I was scared.  It was low grade, but I knew how hard it was going to be for me to get down, and it was truly, truly hard for me to get off the peak. I knew I just wanted do go. That was me. No elation, no catharsis, no joy, just like [expletive] this is going to be hard.

FTW: Really? That’s interesting because it’s built up as something that should be the most beautiful moment of your entire life.

CORY: Which it isn’t. And if it is….you’re repainting history through rose colored lenses. Because the top, if you have any sense at all, is always where you should be the most scared. And the most vigilant about your decisions.

ADRIAN: Right, well, that’s where you’re the furthest away from safety.  You’re so far away from your resources when you’re on top.

FTW: Cory, initially you turned around because you didn’t think you were going to make it to the summit. Then you decided to put on oxygen and keep going. What made you decide to do that?

CORY:  I don’t know the exact elevation, but it was around 28,700 ft. above sea level, higher than the second highest mountain in the world.  I physically, again, looking at the data on Strava, physically I was fine, I could have kept going, but I just didn’t have it mentally this year. I didn’t want it the same way. So making that decision to turn around, honestly came with some heartbreak, but it came pretty easily.  I wasn’t into it. I didn’t have the mental fight.

Photo courtesy of Cory Richards/Adrian Ballinger

FTW: From the Snaps, it looked like Adrian you really pushing. What was the difference this year?

ADRIAN:  I hadn’t done it yet. Most people will only ever climb Everest without oxygen once. Because the suffering is so great. And it’s so bad for you. We ended up talking about this a lot, before the summit push. Our expedition doctor Monica, who is one of our closest friends, and all of us were sort of debating Cory doing it a second time, because it’s so bad for you.

FTW: Wow, so what does it do to your body, climbing Everest without supplemental oxygen?

CORY: It’s basically like gently being choked for 40 hours.

ADRIAN: There’s definitely brain damage…now a lot of it comes back over time, but you basically get dark spots in your brain and 6 or 12 months later you rebuild those neurons.  But for some people they don’t rebuild.

FTW: It very much sounds like head injuries say NHL or NFL players may get.

ADRIAN: Yeah, maybe it’s like boxing at a high level or football, you’re choosing absolute clear damage to your body.

CORY: It’s a low-grade concussion.  That’s essentially what it does.

ADRIAN: So you have to want it really, really bad. I’ve dreamt about this since I was a teenager, I’ve submitted all these times with supplemental oxygen, and failed the year before without, I was willing to put myself really far out there.

CORY: And it was phenomenal to watch.

Photo: Cory Richards/Adrian Ballinger

FTW: Your entire climb was documented on Snapchat and had some really candid moments, but one of the most intense was when Cory admitted he’d been depressed for part of the climb.

CORY:  After I identified what was happening, even on Strava,  you could see, through the bio-metric data that was coming out, that something was like dramatically off. My coach could tell that something was not quite right with my performance. And I could barely get up. Getting up to actually walk was a struggle, and I just could not identify it.

Coupling that with the anxiety, I just had no idea what was going on. I was basically non functional.

There was one episode, and I didn’t talk to anybody about it, it happened about half way up to Advanced Base Camp, where I literally curled up in a ball and just sat there for several minuets because I was so anxiety ridden.

But once I was like, you know what this is? I’ve dealt with this before. I know exactly what this is. And then I could almost trace it back to to the tumult of packing, and getting ready and then traveling and then seeing, oh, I missed taking my medication for several days in a row.  And then all of a sudden it made perfect sense.

But then it took weeks before I decided to talk about it.

FTW: What made you want to talk about it on social media?

CORY: You know, with everything that’s happening right now, in America, with health care, and pre-existing conditions, and the fact that mental health is not covered, this is a prime time to talk about it.

I don’t think of myself as an athlete in the NBA way, but other people may see me that way.  People think you may be super human, and this seemed like the right time to strike that down and say, I struggle deeply and daily with mental health issues and I always have. I think this is an important time to talk about it.

FTW: This year there were 10 deaths on the mountain. What changes do you want to see on Everest?

ADRIAN: What we’re seeing is more and more inexperienced climbers coming with unqualified guide companies.  A lot of these clients are signing up for these trips and they might or might not have enough experience, and they’re going to companies that might not be certified. It’s cheap but it’s adding to the danger on the mountain.  I personally don’t think Everest is over crowded. It’s not nearly as busy as other mountains, not even close. We just need people to go when they’re prepared. They need experience.

FTW: So, was all this worth it?

CORY: It’s always worth it, but that comes in hindsight. That always comes looking back, not in the moment.

ADRIAN:  It was worth it, but it was worth it for the whole project. It’s a cliche to say it was worth the journey, but dreaming about something for decades, spending years figuring out who to make the financial side work, and then finding a partner it works with, and then failing and training and sacrificing, that’s what I’m remembering right now. All that effort and I pulled it off.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.