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UPDATED: Giants lineup for Sunday, plus the Beard is back

UPDATE: Brian Wilson is active and available to pitch today, but Bruce Bochy said he wouldn’t use Wilson in a save situation. He’ll try to get Wilson an inning, and if not, he’ll throw in the bullpen. Come Tuesday at Dodger Stadium, Wilson will be the fully fledged closer again, Bochy said.

Wilson broke his month-long silence with the beat writers and shared his thoughts on topics ranging from his health to the bullpen’s performance without him to the latest footwear fads. Look for that in my coverage for the paper.

Also … Chris Stewart had X-rays on his left hand, which was struck by Ty Wigginton’s backswing last night. They were negative.

Brian Wilson is not listed on the sheet among the active relievers, but that might not mean anything.

The Giants go for their first sweep at Coors in nine years. The last time Matt Cain had to pitch a must-win on getaway day in September here, he took a no-hitter into the eighth inning.

CF Torres
2B Fontenot
RF Beltran
3B Sandoval
1B Huff
LF Belt
SS Crawford
C Whiteside
P Cain

Andrew Baggarly

Andrew Baggarly has documented the most eventful era in San Francisco Giants baseball history, having covered the team since 2004 for th​ree major media outlets including the San Jose Mercury News and the Oakland Tribune​. This is his 20th season as a baseball writer. ​Baggarly is the author of the bestselling book, A Band of Misfits: Tales of the 2010 San Francisco Giants, and the newly published Giant Splash: Bondsian Blasts, World Series Parades and Other Thrilling Moments By the Bay. Baggarly’s other notable life accomplishments include running as the Bratwurst in the Milwaukee Sausage Race and becoming a three-time Jeopardy! champion.

870 Comments

  1. Pill was awful yesterday. Glad Bochy is sensible enough to not start him again.

  2. Enough of Huff…the way Bochy is putting the Lineups together makes it hard to watch the games…Plus what is matt Cains obsession with Eli whiteside?

  3. Did Eli Whiteside catch Bruce Bochy in an uncompromising position? There is no logical reason why Eli should play a single game the rest of this year. Old Man Haired Eli got his Ring and 2+ years paychecks. He needs to go. Waste of a roster spot. He’s lousy hitting and fielding and throwing.

  4. Ridiculous that Pill doesn’t get a start after TWO RBI triples off righties. But then again, Belt, who hits lefties well, sat last night after hitting home runs in the previous two games, so we shouldn’t be surprised.

    My only consolation is that Huff had three hits Friday night, so maybe he’s…well, whatever. Font for Kepp? OK. Kepp didn’t do much last night other than the bunt, and maybe he needs a day.

    Cain clearly prefers working with Whiteside. IMO those poor put-upon starters ought to get their catcher of choice. Seems the least Bochy can do for them. Hector only started with Timmy the other night because Stew wasn’t ready to go with his ankle.

    Is it too much to ask to have Belt, Craw, Pablo, and Pill all in the SAME game?! I guess so.

  5. Can I get hopeful of an epic comeback if the deficit to AZ is 3 games or less by the time S.F. plays in AZ Friday?

  6. Even after watching Bochy these past months, it’s still amazing to see him sit Pill after last night’s game.

  7. Group:
    The only reason Huff is starting….is to justify his salary! Pathetic!

    This line-up could happen. One through eight has stick. (Crawford will get better.)

    lst – Hector Sanchez
    2nd – Panick
    SS – Crawford
    3rd – Sandoval
    C – Posey
    LF – Belt
    CF – Brown
    RF – Pill
    P……..

    Does anyone else like this line-up?

    Journey

  8. Ridiculous. The Giants best line up would probably have Crawford at Short, Belt in Left and Pill at first. But Bochy cannot seem to play these players. Heck, if he had played these players all year, the probably would’ve won five more games–OCabrerror has cost them that with that piece of cement he calls his glove. Belt has 7 home runs in 157 at bats. That translates out to about 22 over a whole season–he may only be hitting .235, but 20+ homeruns from a rookie was there to be had, but noooo, the Giants had to play Rowand ad naseum who struck out for an entire month while Belt was tearing up the PCL. And they couldn’t bring Pill up sooner because that would make Sabean and the scouts who work for him look as dumb as they are. So we suffered through three weeks of Ryan Rohlinger–who couldn’t even hit at Folorado Springs–instead of giving pill a shot because they didn’t want to DFA Tejada. This team–if it plays its younger players–is actually etter than last years time, even without Posey. But they have yet to start an all young player lineup.

  9. It all worked out last night, but I was having a fit in the eighth inning when the Giants had a rally going, first and third with none out, a right-handed reliever, and Bochy sends two righties (DeRosa and Pill) up with a pile of lefties (Huff, Belt, Sandoval) on the bench. Love DeRo, but they had the go-ahead run on third, and they needed someone who could get the ball in the air. DeRo is not that guy, and he struck out. Pill picked everyone up, but it still made no sense in the moment.

    Bochy finally sends in a LH pinch-hitter for Cabrera, but of course, it’s Huff, and he really does nothing (it was luck that Pill was called safe there). Then, with Ford on third and still just one out, up comes Christian instead of Belt, who, hello, also plays left. Christian does nothing and Ford is out at the plate. The Giants barely held on to their one-run victory, and that run might have mattered a lot.

    The ONLY good thing that came out of Bochy’s management of that inning was pinch-hitting for Cabrera, allowing Crawford to make that game-saving play in the bottom of the ninth. The rest was LUCK.

  10. I was afraid to read this line-up card…HUFF???? Pill, I am not sure what you need to do to get playing time..but at least Cabrera is not in there..Let’s get this Matty, you are the man to do it!

  11. Bochy’s logic: Hrm, Pill hasn’t taken a walk in 21ABs… hasn’t provided “enough” power cause he only hit two triples yesterday…. only has 6RBIs and Huff had an RBI yesterday. No doubt, gotta start Huff, he’s the better option.

    can’t wait for Huff’s 4 – 3s or 3 unassisted today. awesome

    and Whiteside? come on. he can’t block, can’t throw, cant hit.

  12. Remember, Pill can’t hit against righties in Bochy’s world. Oh, except both his triples came against tough righties. Huff has gone 7-for-17 during the Giants’ win streak, so Bochy feels justified that he can ride his horse.

    If you look at Huff’s numbers, though, it’s been a soft 7-for-17 with hardly the impact of Pill’s hits.

  13. It is true….bochy can’t seem to get belt, Crawford, pill all in the same line-up.

    He also can’t seem to ever get a rally killer out of the 3-5 holes. Let’s all count the weak pops and feeble grounders off of huff’s bat, while one of the only 4 live bats the Giants have sits….Pablo, Beltran, Belt and Pill need to be in there every day imo…best power hitters the Giants have right now- and along with Kepp- best hitters
    -rbi men they have healthy.

  14. Yes! Huff back in the line up! That was such BS he sat last night. Pill is an unproven minor leaguer who has only been hitting in meaningless September games. Bought time Bochy went with a vet with some experience this time of year to help us make a final push at the DBacks! Go G’s….and take that you Bochy haters!

  15. Not surprised to see huff in there. Honestly would’ve rathered see how pill handled 2b with keppinger getting day off for one game. With expanded rosters could always sub in fontenot or burriss for him in mid game. Oh well. Only complaint is whiteside should not be catching unless stewart is hurt. Hector is catching lincecum on tuesday so yeah.

    Otherwise besides pill, we got our other bats in there in belt and panda and crawford for d and think he has a better bat than cabrera. Cabrerror is hitting .213 with us btw. So crawford over cabrera is a given and if crawford never entered in late innings for d. That 9th could of been a bigger inning and we could still be playing or singing different tunes.

  16. re: #2 On the other hand, Huff had a good night at the plate the prior night – so let’s see if Bochy’s magic is on target again today.

  17. Guys, calm down. You simply can’t expect a Rook to be capable of going righty on righty. It is far too difficult, especially for a guy with a singles hitting swing. Pill was just lucky last night, getting those triples off of righties. Belt is in. Be happy. He so hot before yesterday. Too hot, actually. That’s why Bochy gave him a day off, to cool him down. Can’t have the hot hand get blisters.

  18. At this point huff and pill are a platoon and catchers rotate. Pill is pushing huff for pt and in doing so it is challenging huff and he is playing well too. Pill also gives huff a rest with ross out, torres and christian will split time in cf. But the thing that gets me crawford should be playing ss everyday. No more platooning just cause a lefty on the mound. Crawford’s defense alone helps us and cabrerror hurts us on both sides and he almost dropped another easy popup.

  19. At this point huff and pill are a platoon and catchers rotate. Pill is pushing huff for pt and in doing so it is challenging huff and he is playing well too. Pill also gives huff a rest and we don’t lose anything, actually pill gives us the better bat on days huff sits. Could be something that happens next season at 1b. Platoon!

    With ross out, torres and christian will split time in cf. But the thing that gets me crawford should be playing ss everyday. No more platooning just cause a lefty on the mound. Crawford’s defense alone helps us and cabrerror hurts us on both sides and he almost dropped another easy popup.

  20. I always fail to see Boch’s offensive concepts, but OUR BOYS can do this!!!

  21. At least Christian isn’t in there. I prefer Torres in there, even though he’s reverting back to his pre-2010 season. And oooh no Cabrera? Must be a righty on the mound for the Rockies.

  22. Huff will play on tues as well with a righty on mound. But pill will be there on wed vs lefty kershaw. So expect pill or dero to pinch hit in any critical situations next two games. We’ll be fine as long as torres and fontenot can do something at the top and beltran panda huff and belt do something in the middle. Don’t expect much from the bottom of the order except cain has to get a hit to keep the pitcher’s hitting streak alive. We sit at 3. Vogelstrong had two hits, bumgarner had 2 hits and surkamp had 1 hit and an rbi. Getting some production from the 9 spot lol.

  23. Now with a possibility of making the playoffs, Bochy has to use the gritty, gamey vets to maintain the momentum. GGGAAAAGGGG.

  24. I don’t blame bochy unless cabrerror plays and we lose. We got the right guys goin today vs the righty. Would like to see more of Pill but yeah especially after a game like yesterday. So we shall see. If huff has an 0-fer and we win still. That’s still good. That means pill deserves to play the next two games vs billingsley on tues and kershaw on wed. Bottom line. Let’s go boys. Win today. Can we be perfect?

  25. So, reading the anonymous quotes that Neukom seeking too much money himself was the reason he was forced out just did not sit right. Though entirely possible, they instead leaked those other justifications earlier? Also, this “all on Neukom” type of rumor was not leaked until after Bill was gone. There is no doubt that confidentiality papers were signed that would prevent Neukom from speaking on certain issues. Regardless, this leak doesn’t make the organization look good either. Did they really sign up Neukom and have him working for three years without having his compensation figured out ahead of time?

  26. Huff is going to be playing first base next year regardless of what Pill does for rest of this season and next spring. The Giants have paid Huff 12 million for next year and they will not let him become another Zito or Rowand. Bochy does not want to offend him by sitting him more than once awhile after he has a chance to show why they spent over 23 million on him for two years.

    Torres is the guy that needs to sit. He still swings for the fences every at bat and cannot get it through his thick skull that he is a lead off hitter that should be spraying the ball. I wonder how many bunt hits he has all year ?The worst thing that happend to him was hitting so many home runs last year. He needs to see a shrink. Whiteside just needs to go away. I cannot think of a weaker hitter or catcher that the Giants have had ?

  27. Baggs- is Fontenot in for Keppinger b/c of the latter’s self-called sac bunt last night?

  28. Bochy’s post game quotes yesterday praising Pill were more telling of a guy not willing to give a player those ABs they need to develop that we screamed about all year, instead, he expects Belt to be capable without playing him consistently.

    He drives me nuts. A grizzled vet with experience that can handle spot starts is the one he gives consistent playing time to during the year, and the rooks get spot started? even when they actually are the hot hands? [hotter than his vets have been all year long, too.]

  29. Weakest links on our team in order:
    1 cabrerror ss on both sides
    2 whiteside c on both sides
    3 torres cf offensive standpoint
    4 stewart c offensive standpoint
    5 bruce bochy’s lineups at times

  30. I’m really, REALLY worried today. The #1 and #2 hitters absolutely have to get on base IMHO, somehow today. Any way possible… Torres, don’t be afraid to walk. Mike let one clip your jersey even. Carlos and Pablo, you gotta carry your weight today. The win or loss will likely depend on how it goes with you two. Whiteside will likely see the most hittable pitches of anyone on our Giants team. Will Eli square anything up? Hope so, but doubt it. And where in the fire truck is Cain’s annual homer?

    Doubt anybody cares about my “predictions and game notes” ramblings anyways. So, I’ll just keep it short and stop my pre-game blabberings about score and match-ups and strategies. Don’t think I’m earning any street cred here with this tough crowd anyways.
    —————

    Anyways, listening to Marty on KNBR pre-game? Ron Wotus (bench coach) was talking about Crawford and how after infield practice is basically over, Crawford does some behind-the-back and between the legs plays. And Wotus doesn’t want to discourage him, sometimes you need those athletic plays and it keeps the mood light and everything.

    He went on to say “Omar Visquel used to do those things too…” To my ears it sounded a bit like a “parallel” or even “comparison”… That’s some pretty high praise from your bench coach kid. Not all the team managers work with their eyes closed.

    Go Giants.

  31. Did I miss something? Like a 7 games win streak. Maybe dreaming?

    Oh well.

    Go Giants.

  32. uh-oh, sorry I meant Omar VIZQUEL.

    I’m sure there’s h3ll to pay for that typo on this board. My apologies.

  33. What, no appologies for yesterdays lineup chorus’ pointless vitriol. Oh well, it is a little like an early morning trip to the john to relieve your inner frustration. The most telling harmony in many of those comments was ‘I don’t understand’ in one form or another. It’s not the disagreement that really is dispeptic, it’s the fact no one ever relents from their need to post the same sort of comment the next game instead of just admiting there is a lot about the game they, including me, have to learn. Sooner or later the Giants have to loose a game for you guys to be right, is it self satisfying at that point?

  34. kepp being punished for the bunt

    which won the game

    ef you blowchee

  35. Crawford will be our ss next year. Keppinger will be retained to be insurance at 2b and platoon at ss to get kepp’s bat in there from time to time. Cf/leadoff will be the void we need to fill. Torres will not be back without a doubt as he is arbitration again and doubt they offer him to get a pay raise. Prob non tender and invite him to spring training. But coco crisp in cf is the cheap option that fills both needs with one deal and will fit our budget and allow us to sign a beltran unless he things freddy, posey, crisp, belt, pill and huff, nate the great and our pitching is not enough. If not, bring the boss back and add rollins instead to get an offensive upgrade at ss only if we don’t get a big bopper OF back in beltran or cuddyer. Otherwise. We will be good.

    2012
    C buster posey
    1b aubrey huff/brett pill
    2b freddy sanchez
    3b pablo sandoval
    Ss brandon crawford/jeff keppinger
    Lf brandon belt
    Cf coco crisp
    Rf carlos beltran or nate the great

    Rollins at ss as insurance to beltran not signing.

  36. I see bright, bright, sun shiny days.

    Keep it up I love when all the little girls squeal about the line up.

    8 in a row BABY!

    Dont stop Squealin! And Giants Dont stop Winning!

    BLACK AND ORANGE TILLL I DIE! Bright, Bright Sun Shiny Days. OH YEAH!

  37. A reminder, Stewart got popped on the hand last night by a bat and may miss a couple of games because of that and the ankle from earlier in the week.

  38. Aside from the reappearance of Whiteside, I’m completely fine with this lineup. Good to see Fontenot get a start at second; he hits RHP well.

  39. Hey VGF.

    Did you miss something? Yeah, you’re late.

    eight-straight-would-be-great.

    (don’t hate)

  40. walt,

    Keppinger is being punish by nature for being an older veteran with slow feet who has hit .118 for the last week or two.

    Torres is in, because Cain can be a fly ball pitcher at times, a dangerous issue in Denver.

  41. CB,

    have you watched Crisp play this year. He’s not the guy he used to be. Speculation is that he won’t attain ‘B’ grade as far as compensation level is concerned during the winter season.

  42. Gotta love this torturous season. Up and down. But yeah 10 games to go. 1 at a time. Can we be perfect? 10 playoff games in my mind and in the giants players mind. Play hard and relaxed with nothing to lose. We’ve been here before and the best team will come on top at game 162. If it is not us, it wasn’t meant to be despite all the injuries all the offensive struggles all season, questionable management decisions and some bad decisions. Were in this still till the end.

    That is why I love baseball and love the giants. Win or lose no matter what. We die hard as fans and bleed black and orange. We as fans just want to win again and want our team to do well. 10 game playoff starts today.
    9ain you got game 1

  43. Cain, you got game 1. I love the spirit CB! And we want to get to the regular season world series and that is the 3 game set with D-backs. Gotta win one game at a time to get there. Let’s get it done boys.

  44. channel

    Yeah,

    You have to dislike 42 stolen bases and 27 doubles.

    Oh I get it maybe its his ISO or SO

    Or your MENSO!

  45. I’ve seen crisp play and his numbers. He’s hitting like .272 with 7hr 45rbi’s or so and 40 stolen bases, something like that and has played great d in cf for the a’s. He is a much better overall hitter and base stealer than torres. He is a switch hitter too and I think he fits our ballpark well.

    Give us a better option for cf that is in free agent market that will be a shortgap until brown is ready by 2013. Don’t say torres or christian. They are not the answers. Ross might be a factor there but his defense is average and he will be more expensive option in OF. Love the boss tho

  46. The Fact that Willy is back is huge.

    Casilla has been leaking oil getting it done but is starting to leak oil.

    GO GIANTS!

  47. “Is there a plan for developing the youngsters. It wasn’t fair what happened to Brandon Belt. If Gary Brown is slated for 2013, then PLEASE be patient and stick to a plan.”

    Brown isn’t a youngster, he’s 23 years old. If they wait until 2013, he’ll be considered too old to be a prospect. They should have fast tracked him through the system and had him in Fresno by August. If he hit at AAA, then he should have been called up. His skill set, speed and defense, is going to be the same in MLB as it was in A ball. The fact is, the Giants needed him, with Ross gone, they need him starting. Here’s the lineup I wish Bochy was going with today:
    Brown CF
    Keppinger 2B
    Beltran RF
    Sandoval 3B
    Pill 1B
    Sanchez C
    Belt LF
    Crawford SS
    Cain P

  48. JC,

    I wouldn’t take issue with Torres vs. Crisp looking back. I’d add though neither look like much going forward. Crisp was only able to manage to play in 120 games or so this year and his throwing arm is just plain shot. You can see a guy entering his twilight, who may go south rather quickly. Those 8-10 A’s games I’ve seen him in weren’t inspirational as well. If his performance this year is the bellweather of whats’s to come, I’m not sure we don’t have better options in Fresno.

  49. Maybe tito. Its been awhile since huff has had that 3 run homer. He is due. But man carlos is a hitting machine. Guy is unbelievable. We need to resign him. Over a course of a 162 game season, he is a special kind of player, an all-star caliber and is an impact player. Of course there will be games where he doesn’t hit and it might make no impact but he helps us more than he hurts us without a doubt. His defense can improve but he makes all the routine plays and has a strong arm.

    I was a skeptic of the deal at first and still am if we cannot retain him. But the guy hits well from both sides and for power. Doesn’t hurt to have a threat or bat like that in your lineup.

    Mix that with pablo, posey, freddy, belt, maybe pill or huff I guess. Could be a very potent lineup and see games like this where it is lopsided for us in the victories with our pitching.

  50. Wow! watching the Raiders so I can talk smack to Raider friends.

    aaa……. They actuallly look very good. Sorry to say.

    McFadden is a beast.

  51. LOSERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

    YAll winning because Colorado playing out there a Triple-A Batting and Pitching team.

    Lets see when yall face real teams Like DBACKS this weekend

  52. walt once again displays his cluelessness.

    Kepp’s bunt didn’t win the game. Street’s error won the game.

    Kepp’s bunt was HORRIBLE and would have been a nail in the coffin for the season if not for Street’s even more HORRIBLE throw.

    Watch the effin game, walt.

  53. JC

    Indeed Carlos is a good hittter, And there are not that many good hitters available that are not going to cost you a huge piece of your pitching staff in return. Anybody that think Sabean is not going to resign this guy is fooling themselves.

    Both parties are playing there cards so as not to tip there hand and cost themselves more money or years on the contract. But when the trade went down is all you have to know about both sides. They were madly in love with each other. Nothings changed but posturing for a good contract.

  54. We got Belt and Craw starting. Let’s complain about Huff, Bochy’s intelligence and the impending loss.

    What could we whine about if Pill was at 1B?

    Seven straight with dim hopes of post season. I didn’t expect the playoffs last year and was thrilled by game 162. I didnt expect the playoffs this year and am happy to see what could be deemed a pennant race.

  55. To think if we get this game today that wilson is back on Tuesday is VERY encouraging. c’mon mets help us out today big time!

  56. lineups don’t matter, again, this team has a knack for winning in spite of bochy…i liken bochy to something doyle brunson once said when asked about playing the odds, he said ” the odds are always the same, 50-50…either you hit your card or you don’t…that’s seems to be bochy, doesn’t matter who i play, either we’ll win or we won’t.

    about miller and kuip…i too have noticed a difference in these 2. i’ve been wondering about john in particular. he’s missed a lot of games this year … i care for my mother, she has alzhiemers, it’s not something i’d wish on anyone…much more then just memory loss. could be why john’s interviews w/ bochy seem different. the searching for words is a major sign…hope not, i like john and the rest…

    GO GIANTS…

    WIN ONE IN A ROW!!!

  57. HuffHuffPass

    Welcome back again on the band wagon. We have installed a revolving door on the band wagon just for fans like yourself.

    feel free to jump off and on once or twice more.

    GO GIANTS! BLACK AND ORANGE TIIL I DIE! I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days. OH YEAH!

  58. The Giants have a huge obstacle to overcome. Since 2007 I seem to recall they’ve had three or four seven game winning streaks… but no eight game winning streaks.

  59. We aint Padres . So that dream that Bochy and all the senseless Giants fans have are gonna die next weekend when DBACKS give Lincecum, CAin, Bumgarner a complete trashing.

    GO DBACKS

    Now off to the GYM to workout my 6pack.

    BYE BYE SUCKAS

  60. Tejeda

    Doing it for the Giants YES!

    Mets up 4-1 over Braves Tejeda a bases clearing double for 3 rbi’s

    IEE YIE YIE!

  61. I wonder if what Bochy has in mind with his choices about playing Pill is one thing, facing Kershaw next week. It’ll be interesting to see if that matchup doesn’t develop. The Giants are hitting a pitiful .183 against him. It’s interesting that the Rockies and Cardinals are the only teams to get to him this year. In fact the Cards are hitting almost .300 against him.

  62. keppingers .150 avg in last 10 games gave Fontenot the chance- WAY TO GO MIKE!

  63. Regarding comments made by Dbacks (66,76):

    I almost hate to say anything about this idiot because it’s like encouraging bad behavior in a child: the more attention you give the bad behavior, the more it continues.

    That a lively interaction can happen on this site among people that actually care about the Giants is great; that this goofball continues to “comment” is simply rude. Welcome to sports in America, I guess…

    Now down by five. Go Matty!

  64. Fontenot seems to do his best after being shelved for a while. The guy really is a fantastic reserve MI. With extended play, and his defense gets exposed and his bat tends to go dormant, but he really seems to come up large in spot duty.

  65. bochy’s stubborn and unrequited loyalty to Huff and Whiteside are the only reasons that the Gs might lose today.

  66. To be honest, Bill, it is surprising there are not more trolls here. ExtraBaggs is well below the curve for an Internet sports site, fortunately.

  67. This is the kind of game Matt Cain has to step up and put some goose eggs up.

    Come on Cainer!

  68. Cowboy, redneck, Joe West asserting his dominance refusing to call balls at the knees, like the rest of this crew, terrible.

    Question is: does Pill pop up a changeup that would’ve bounced?

  69. Joe West won’t give Cain a called strike 3. Huge bad break on that HBP, too.

    Shaky, shaky start for Cain…..

  70. Matt Cains little holding his mouth on that last breaking ball called a ball is not helping him get called strikes. very annoying bad habit. Umpires are going to shrink there zone.

  71. Could hear Cain crying over last call F -U- C- K!

    He just bought about 15 extra pitches on his day.

  72. Cain has faced 12 batters in 2.1 IP. Thanks to Joe West’s erratic K zone, lots of pitches early – definitely going to be a bullpen day.

  73. It looks like ( with West, who knows) that West is calling the inside strike if the hitter is on the plate and not calling it if they’re off the plate. Tall guys get a pass, short guys not so much. West must be a Randy neuman fan.

  74. West crouches between the LH batter and catcher – not at all “squared up” behind the plate. That’s got to screw up his perspective. But he’s also really inconsistent.

    Panda has half a cycle already – the hard ones, triple & HR.

    Giants are teeing off on Rogers this inning.

  75. Good job Beltran. Now Tito can claim that was the biggest hit of the game!

    I jest of course. I love the way they are pouring it on today! There’s a fight at the bat rack!

  76. This must be the biggest inning of the year: 8 runs, 4 HRs (in one inning!)

  77. with that dinger, pablo may have just effed his chances to be on the first plyaer in history to get 2 cycles in one series

    DFA

  78. @CC, unless Bochy pulls Pablo, he’ll surely get at least two more ABs. How sweet would back-to-back cycles be? Go PANDA!

  79. Up 9 in the 4th scares me in Colorado. The damn park. I’d be more at ease up only 4, because you know the team would not be. lol

  80. Love it!!!

    Isn’t it amazing how pumping the ENTIRE team with a “we CAN and WILL do this!” mental strength can make a difference?

  81. Pablo has 11 total bases in 4 innings today.

    Cain is very unsharp – he’ll be lucky to go more than 5 IP at this rate.

  82. @ avwh,

    Can’t really blame Font for the attempt at 2b, as a good toss would have probably resulted in a DP with a slow footed hitter. Just a bad toss, unfortunately.

  83. Tweet from Baggerly: “The Rockies are stealing bases down seven runs. That is not a favorable comment on Eli Whiteside.”

    Has anyone had something favorable to say this year?

  84. OMG. That shot of the “reaction from Sandoval” was classic. Did anyone notice Beltran’s excitement. Rewind and take a look if you didn’t.

  85. The young guys are getting it done! Pablo 2 home runs! Belt 1 home run! Crawford double and a home run!

    young guys need at bats Bochy!! Go YOUNG GUNS!!

  86. Awe c’mon cow, carlos obviously had something in his eye at that moment! 🙂

  87. I think Baggs called Belt, Pill, Hector, Crawford, Gillespe and Burriss the Suicide Squad!!

    I really like the suicide squad!

  88. Giants 4 games behind the Braves, YES!

    I can see bright, bright sun shiny days OH YEAH!

  89. Clearly, the HRs have been because of Bochy’s intuitive managing skills. The players were at fault until this streak.

  90. San Diego Jumps out in front 1-0 to D’backs

    bright, bright, sun shiny days.

  91. This is shaping up to be one of those Coors fields nightmare games. I HATE this ball park!! Why would any pitcher want to play here?

  92. TWC

    even a Cow will fit on the band wagon.

    bright, bright sun shiny days.

  93. Did anyone see what looked to me like a 1/2A$$ed effort by Carlos on that fly. Don’t know for sure since no repeat, sure looked like a loaf.

  94. Tito –

    do not Jinx this game. This game is far from over. Coors field is a house of horrors!

  95. Didn’t Mike Hampton sign a really big contract w/ COL ” because they had the best schools”? 😉 Or am I thinking of another lying pitcher??

  96. —Matt Cain is finding out what the late Darryl Kile (RIP) found out while pitching in Denver.

    —Cain “maybe” done.

    —Only a Football Score might be the only safe way to finish this off.

    —Add ON, and get the Pen involved with cut fastballs and sliders. Curve Balls in this horrific yard are just going to hang UP.

  97. @ Bapah,

    I thought the same thing. It looked like Carlos had the ball tracked and timed and could have made a catch, but it would have meant a possible collision with the wall and…. well…. of course he’ll have none of that!

  98. @ VGF #52 & #58:

    OMG. I’m sorry. My choice of words was poor. I was simply trying to write something “funny” and in no way had I intended it to be directed towards YOU (or anybody, really).

    If it was read that way, or came across that way, my sincere apologies VGF. (And when I go back and re-read what I wrote, I can see this being a very poor choice of words from me). My apologies. That was poor form on my part.
    —————————–

    Wow. I haven’t been able to follow much of the game. Saw Mikey go deep. Saw Joe West being a chump and absolutely pinching Matt Cain. Every time they switched back (from the 49ers game), score was looking even more bloated than an elephant after a salt lick.

    I’ll catch up on my reading while I listen to the rest of the game.

    Go Giants!

  99. —Mike Cameron had an altercation with a MALE flight attendant and the Marlins set him free…

    —Not sure about the Colorado story…regarding Lies and Schools…

  100. Pablo has truly carried the team during this stretch. Just amazing stuff happening in Giant land now! what a great last week this will be.

  101. CU:
    some FA SP signed a big contract w/ the Rockies.

    When asked why he took their offer (when it was beaucoup more $$ that others offered, and the inquirer meant, “you do know your numbers will suck in Coors?”).

    The SP (I still think was Hampton) disingenuously said it was because of the Denver area schools.

  102. CC, unless Bochy gives Crawford an unexpected start against Kershaw, I’ll be complaining then, too. Cabrera offers so little against Kershaw, but you know he’ll start, his defense being a concern for what should be a low scoring and important game.

  103. For those who like to predict games based on the lineup, some food for thought …

    This team now has confidence. What applied to individual players a month ago no longer applies.

    And now I’m off to watch my grandson’s baseball scrimmage. He is 10 and wants to be the next Buster Posey. 😉

  104. Cow,

    I’m betting we see a first Belt, Crawford, Pill platoon against Kershaw. Lincecum has become a groundball pitcher, and IMO Crawford has a clue now. He doesn’t even look like the same guy at the plate that we saw 2 weeks ago. Only something weird about the matchups could nix it, IMO.

  105. TWC

    You will be crying even if they win the World Sereis again.

    You are what you are no more no less.

  106. Come on Giants, get the two point conversion so we can have an even 14.

  107. On late today,

    2 things.

    A lot of moves this year have been head scratching.

    As far as, Pill goes. He is not just a one “hit” wonder in Fresno this year. He has had a solid minor league “career”. Until a couple of years ago he was thought the first baseman of the future. Right out of the gate this year he hit in Fresno. He was playing 2nd when F. Sanchez went down and they never brought him up! Who knows what the end game would have been but we know that Bill Hall did not work out. TeNada, well we know. Fontenot? Burriss? Keppinger has been steady. What if Pill would have been given the chance in May?

    Secondly, Kruik & Kuip made the most bizarre inaccurate observation of Belt’s swing today after he hit his HR. They said he had “an awkward swing” They actually went on and on about it. WHAT?

    Belt had an inside out swing on that pitch (which was a little in) and he drove it to the opposite field. However, he has a beautiful swing! Sometimes because of his height and the location of the pitch he may look awkward but in no way shape or form is that true. Weird topic from the Boys!

  108. quick counter, JD4SF, while many posts do predict wins or losses based on line ups (which I agree is lowly correlated, at best), it is really about the subtle changes of the odds toward success and whether Bochy is putting the team in the best position to win or not.

    Results don’t change whether a decision was good or not. Again, my best example is hitting on 18 in blackjack, dealer showing a 6, and you land a 3. Just because you would have lost without hitting doesn’t make the hit a good decision when you made it.

  109. @ JD4SF #144:
    >For those who like to predict games based on the lineup, some food for thought …

    How’s my record going so far on this? The last four games? One comment (from The Wisdom Cow- total). I dunno if I am one of those you are speaking of.

  110. @ JD4SF #144:
    >And now I’m off to watch my grandson’s baseball scrimmage. He is 10 and wants to be the next Buster Posey.

    Have fun. Being the next Buster Posey is a very nice thing. Go Next Buster!

    Cheers.

  111. Channel 145.
    Cow 146.

    2 of the three of those (Belt, Crawford) are lefty Rookies against one of the hardest lefty in the game.

    That compiled with all that is the “Bochy”. I Highly doubt it!

    You certainly may see Pill with Huff in Left? but the rest will probably be Vets!

    Also, Pablo swung lefty today against a lefty reliever. What is that going to do against Kershaw? Will he play? Will he go lefty?

  112. On KNBR:

    Dave: “First time a Giants team has hit 4 home runs in the same inning since 1961.”

    Wow, gosh. How odd to have a box score of 12 R and 12 H and 1E versus 5R and 5H and 1E?

  113. We need to Torres’ meds straightened out he looks lost up there.There’s no throttle, he’s just wide open all the time.

  114. CC, the saving grace for Tuesday is that Bochy can’t play Rowand and Tejada. You KNOW he would.

    Tito, it is not “crying.” It is nitpicking. It is talking baseball. And I’d rather be who I am than be the one pleasing himself to Beltran ABs and defensive misplays like you do in troll fashion disguised as fandom.

  115. vets didnt hit kershaw the last time

    better to have the kids out there who dont know enough to be scared

    plus d will be the key to the game

    DFA OCAB

  116. MvM, after the 0-fer Cabrera had last game versus Kershaw, I’d play the defender at SS. Cabrera’s splits are useless. He’s facing a dominant pitcher. I would bet he’d only hit a location mistake, which Crawford could do too.

    I actually expect Pablo to start on the bench with DeRosa @ 3B, given the injury. Belt in LF would make sense only because Ross is out. I’d sit Huff. I know he is “coming around” again (maybe), but it is Kershaw. I’d want to give Timmy the best defense he can have and hope for some good fortune with the offense.

    Enough, lol. We have 48 hours to argue this one.

    ——————————-

    Coors games take forever.

  117. walt, get a clue, when your era is .90 and your WHIP .5, no one is hitting you.

    Crawfords bobble is on Rameriz, the doofus put everyone to sleep on ther heels in his defense. Why in the hell is he corner pitching with a 7 run lead, Joe West umping and those shadows.

    West will hurry this game up for the plane, if they just let him.

  118. If we miss out on the playoffs by 3 games. I will never forgive Bochy and Sabean. As for Kershaw – this should be the line up.

    1. Christian
    2. Kepp
    3. Beltran
    4. Pablo
    5. Pill
    6. Belt
    7. Crawford
    8. Hector

  119. Crawford juggled one, I guess? Still got ’em though and Ramon works out of a tough spot. Good work boys. Set up the 8th for the Rox to get 54’ed? Oh yeah, I’m in!

    ———-

    Curious… Does anybody else notice how often Dave uses the word “scary”? I don’t think high-level athletes would be really pleased with this descriptive term…

    “Cain has to be really careful here, so-and-so can be really scary.”
    Cain ain’t scared. I don’t think so. Careful, yes.

    Crawford juggled it. “That looked scary for a moment…”
    Calm, cool… Collected. Get the sure out at first, trust that arm kid. Not scared.

    Just my humble thought. YMMV.

  120. @ TWC and MvM,

    I’d play the best defense possible behind Tim and try to survive Kershaw and get into the Dodger BP and try to win it against them. Getting Kershaw’s pitch count up should be a priority in this game, while Tim trying to keep his down will be important also.

  121. do the Giants get to play Colorado anymore games this year? they finally found a pitching staff they could dominate.

  122. Jr says: September 18th, 2011 at 10:11 am 26..Bochy is an idiot. The loss today is on him.

    —HAHAHAHAHHA—-

    —Another expert @ 10:11 in the morning.

    —Truthfully its about executing and hitting mistake pitches very very FAR in a park that carrys pop ups OUT to the facing of the upper deck….

    —That a boy JR, your SH*T went out the window when Fonty went Yard.

    🙂

  123. LMAO–try to get Kershaws pitch count up??? what are the Giants going to do trade for all of the Yankees position players?

    you do realize as soon as Bochy figures out they have a shot again he’ll play those “veterans” again. The ones with track records and other happy horsebleep. Cabrera will be back in the lineup again no doubt

  124. Pablo has crested the .900 mark, .902 OPS. What a monster TB # from this series. So great to see him doing that kind of damage he can, getting the walks, crushing the ball.

    Willie’s heating up…

  125. Cow 164.

    I agree with you! I am just thinking like I believe Bochy will!

    Because these Timmy/Kershaw match ups are usually 2-1, 1-0 I would definitely go for the defense!

    With Bochy though, he fantasizes about 10 year veteran journeymen having career games!

    We will see!

  126. DBACKS says: September 18th, 2011 at 11:23 am 65..LOSERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

    —HAHA

    —How did your smanging go. So nice that you can spell.

    —Either talk baseball or go sit at the park with the roof closed 🙂

  127. DBACKS says: September 18th, 2011 at 11:52 am 74..We aint Padres . So that dream that Bochy and all the senseless Giants fans have are gonna die next weekend when DBACKS give Lincecum, CAin, Bumgarner a complete trashing.GO DBACKSNow off to the GYM to workout my 6pack. BYE BYE SUCKAS

    —So obvious who he is 18-35 yrs old and has to work on his 6 pack in private because ARZ is so privately conservative (Republican) that he and his boyfriend can’t frolick in person….

  128. Quick – what do you call a player who doesn’t want to put in extra work to make himself better and who ignores advice from his coaches?

    Well, usually we call him a prima dona punk and we want him as far away from our team as possible.

    But in this blog’s comments section, we call him Brandon Belt and we whine and whine and whine that he hasn’t been given a “fair chance” by the mean ol’ manager.

  129. See?? They CAN play defense, too. Nice snag by Christian…

  130. Christian took that out of the 2nd row. Great concentration on that grab. Well done!

  131. Yes, Wilson looked great. What are we thinking checking in on the Niner’s just when Smith gave it up?

    And da’Beard is back on the mound! (Needs his new Nike’s, though…)

  132. TitoMac says: September 18th, 2011 at 1:00 pm 82..Could hear Cain crying over last call F -U- C- K!He just bought about 15 extra pitches on his day.

    —Typical potty mouth—

    —Watch Carlos’s attempt on the fly ball – turned double. WoW he must be playing a board game to not catch that?

    —Nate is standing there waiting for that fly ball to enter his glove?

    —Tito, you should RE-WATCH the condensed version and see how Carlos played that “tough” fly ball…

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_09_18_sfnmlb_colmlb_1

    —Great HITTER— 2011=Now an Average rightfield, but Carlos is oh bright sun shiny day….for his big pay day in the American League.

  133. @ Giant PITA #171:
    >@ wan8iv, yes final three at home. [vs. COL]

    Can they bring Coors Field with them? I mean, only for our at-bats? Kinda like their humidor switcheroos, only different. I know, I love our park and all… I’m just sayin’…

    I guess Bochy is really sticking to his “Casilla will continue as our closer as long as he keeps getting it done” thing. Interesting. It actually kinda makes sense, I suppose.

    So, did Christian just make a highlight reel?

    ————-

    Oh, BTW… I finally had a chance to watch the highlight clip of Crawford’s bare hand pick last night. Wow! Tipped off the glove of Casilla. Changed direction just a smidge. You can see Crawford was tracking ‘deeper’ and re-routed more towards the infield… without breaking stride nor rhythm.

    And then he picked that short-hop. Who makes THAT decision? A foot off the ground? Really? All that stuff I had said about “learning game speed”? Dude is locked in now IMHO. He understood how much time he had, made a decisive play on a short hop. In a clutch moment? Trusted his arm. “Got ’em.”

    Looks to me like the game has truly ‘slowed down’ for him. That’s nice. REALLY nice.

    Go Giants!

  134. MvM, agree completely, Bochy will go Cabrera at SS. The Ross injury, and a one sided Pablo (but what a side, lately!) does open up the chance for a Rook on Tuesday, either at 1B or LF, but I doubt both. I could see him do what you suggested, Huff in LF and Pill at 1B. He’s gone through pains of distinguishing Pill from other Rookies noting his AB numbers in the minors.

    Although, I would not be surprised if Baer had given Bochy a post it telling him he’d be gone if he treated Pill the same as he did Belt, lol. Bad PR is a no-no to Larry. Hmmm, maybe board comments will actually have a little weight under the Baer regime?

  135. I give the Giants credit for cutting Tejada and Rowand (even though it was too late), but they don’t have enough guts to cut Cabrera.

  136. avwh says: September 18th, 2011 at 1:13 pm 99..West crouches between the LH batter and catcher – not at all “squared up” behind the plate. That’s got to screw up his perspective. But he’s also really inconsistent.Panda has half a cycle already – the hard ones, triple & HR.
    Giants are teeing off on Rogers this inning.

    —avhw: About 99% of all Umpires NOW….”sit in” what the call the “slot”.

  137. Not looking so good down in SD today…. Snakes up 4-1 after 7 full.

  138. avwh says: September 18th, 2011 at 1:37 pm 114..…and we see why Fontenot is only a backup defensively.

    —avhw: I chalk it up as being unacceptable and NOT having what College and HS coaches “having a pre-pitch thought”. Unfortunatly MLB players do not get “talked to” like that in the dugout in the SHOW… A loss of FOCUS for sure…

    —In another words: Fonty: Pick the ball up and throw to first base…

  139. Braves gave it up, so they gain in the WC. They ned to stay focused and just win…

  140. pacman68 says: September 18th, 2011 at 2:01 pm 129..This is shaping up to be one of those Coors fields nightmare games. I HATE this ball park!! Why would any pitcher want to play here?

    Darryl Kyle HATED pitching there…

  141. Um, what team is this again? Where were these at-bats in August when we needed them?

  142. i have a feeling bochy is gonna play all of his veterans when we a few games closer leading up to the arizona series. really the kids are the ones bringing this team back from the dead. they should play every day until the end.

  143. Arizona winning 🙁 We need to be at least 3 down when we face the Dbacks.

    GREAT WIN AND SWEEP!

    SHAME YOU SABEAN AND BOCHY FOR NOT PLAYING TH

  144. Bapah says: September 18th, 2011 at 2:02 pm 129..Did anyone see what looked to me like a 1/2A$$ed effort by Carlos on that fly. Don’t know for sure since no repeat, sure looked like a loaf.

    —Watch todays game on MLB condensed and you will see you were correct!!!!

    —Bad effort!

  145. Has anyone else noticed the hand slap between Panda and BWeez after a game? Always cracks me up.

  146. @ The Wisdom Cow #195:
    >Hmmm, maybe board comments will actually have a little weight under the Baer regime?

    Post #37 @ 10:40 am… I asked for Torres & Fontenot to get on base any way possible. I asked about Cain’s annual homer. I asked for Pablo and Carlos to carry the weight today. They answered right here on the board and promised…

    Pablo post #48! (how perfect is that?!)
    Torres post #50.
    Beltran post #51. (fifteen backwards?)

    Yesterday, I asked for a bases clearing double/triple from Pill. He delivered TWICE! I asked for 4 runs in four innings on Harang… Must’ve been some weird delay, they did this the second time they faced him in just over a week.

    Maybe Baer’s reading, Pablo was here, Torres too, yes even Beltran was here… So trolls… Try to write something that contributes here. And all the rest? Please keep on keeping on with all the good thoughts and info and discussions.

    WooHoo! Giants! I bet our runs scored avg (for the entire SEASON) went up about 0.4 runs in this 8-straight run. LOL.

    Go Gigantes! Great win.

  147. Fergie-
    Of course it’s different now; you can’t grind like that and not be tight. They’re loose now, of course they’re playing better. Let the playoffs go, they did. If something miraculous happens, ok, if not we’ll just have fun. It’s just a game, right?

  148. mitchvman says: September 18th, 2011 at 2:30 pm 148..On late today,
    Secondly, Kruik & Kuip made the most bizarre inaccurate observation of
    Belt’s swing today after he hit his HR. They said he had “an awkward swing” They actually went on and on about it. WHAT?

    —Mitch:

    —I heard THAT also; Krukow and Kuiper were the ONES that were awkward right there; Krukow actually had a bit of a funky way mechanically if you recall; Kuiper awkwardly hit ONE HR in his career while puffing on Pell Mells while IN THE DUGOUT.

    —IMHO – just leave the kid alone (K&K) He’s young and already married and everything about his swing looks like Daryl Strawberry at 6’6 to BB’s 6’5.

    —End of Story. He is here to Stay. K&K should extraplate OUT his at bats to his home runs; The kid (thats my nickname) would have @ 25 HR’s by now…

  149. ClutchUp

    carlos is knocking out any chance for an nl club to bid for him

    and why are the giants now leaking nasty things about nuke?

  150. @ClutchUp 212

    Belt would have at least 22 Home Runs and if we would have brought Pill up in May instead of Hall and kept Crawford at SS. Who knows where we would be in the standings.

  151. Fit Panda says: September 18th, 2011 at 3:03 pm 162..

    —Give the Brandon Belt is not a hard worker stuff a rest!?!

    —He’s here to stay.

  152. if you want some insight on LarryBaer and Nuekom you need to listen to MartyLurie’s podcast yesterday with AnnKillion on KNBR.
    She says some damning things about Baer’s fascination w/Bonds until the stupid bitter end with Bonds.

  153. dsf says: September 18th, 2011 at 3:09 pm 193..@ Giant PITA #171:
    So, did Christian just make a highlight reel?

    —Dave/SF

    —Answer: Yes. MLB (so I think) has FREE Watch the Condensed game; No audio only CROWD noise.

    —Great play by Justin…Second Row down LF line

  154. Anybody?

    Was Christian’s grab really in the 2nd row out there? Goodness, I got something to look forward to on the highlight clips when they’re posted… Oh yeah, I’d guess some long balls will make it up there too, huh? LOL. So, Christian looks more settled on his routes & angles in big league parks to those of you watching? Do the ‘regular’ plays look easy for him?

    Cain to straightaway center? Seriously? Gotta love the Panda getting triples, that alone is almost worth the price of admission to any game. Will look forward to them all. Crawford, I guess on a breaking ball? I saw Fontenot’s. He squared that one up but good. “Sweet spotted and launched”. Gosh, that jumped and the thin air too. Golly.

  155. you guys who are down on Belt also need to listen to guys from Baseball Prospectus and Keith Law and the guys on Baseball Today from ESPN.
    They are unbiased and are not Giant fans and they all really like Belt and feel the Giants have jacked him around way to much.

  156. If Bochy plays Pill, Belt, Crawford and H. Sanchez everyday they will be a better team.

  157. pacman68 says: September 18th, 2011 at 3:20 pm 186..Arizona winning We need to be at least 3 down when we face the Dbacks. GREAT WIN AND SWEEP! SHAME YOU SABEAN AND BOCHY FOR NOT PLAYING TH..

    —I love YOUR stuff by WHY keep talking about stuff in the past. Is it because “you can”???

    —There are games that EVERY team that was OUR opponent – LOST – that THEY could have done differently and maybe WON.

    —There are NO guarantees if you go back in TIME and play YOUR guys that would have have concluded with WINS for SF. Why do you insist on revisiting history….

    —Players DONT think that way, why do you? Why keep talking about the PAST?

  158. Where are all the morons who were calling Panda fat and lazy just over a week ago? Bunch of idiots!!

  159. @dsf 221,

    Christian’s catch was on a foul ball down the left field line. He reached over the short wall out into the 2nd row, making the catch as he fell into the crowd. Great grab.

  160. I’m not looking forward to Christian/Torres at the top of the line-up for the next few games. Christian is showing he can’t hit major league pitching consistently, and Torres isn’t the prototypical lead-off hitter as he doesn’t work the count or try to get on base, aside from hitting for the fences. But these two are the only options we have, so we have to make due….ugh.

    I can’t wait til Cody comes back. Get well soon, Cody!

  161. clutchup – I never said he wasn’t here to stay, but it’s a fact that he dragged his feet over playing winter ball, and it’s also a fact that his recent success has come after he finally took Muellens’ advice about standing off the plate a bit – advice that he admits he ignored for awhile.

    Bury your head in the sand all you want, but those are facts.

    Do you think either of those things might have had anything to do with him riding the bench a lot this season? Or is it really all just Bochy’s fault? Where is the player’s accountability on this board? Why is it when a player fails, it’s the manager’s fault?

  162. walt kovacs says: September 18th, 2011 at 3:32 pm 202..ClutchUp
    carlos is knocking out any chance for an nl club to bid for himand why are the giants now leaking nasty things about nuke?

    —Walt: Must be the Giants mantra; When McGowan canned Dusty after the 2002 year…all DBakes IRS issues mysteriously hit the papers 🙁

    Walt: This is pretty revealing

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/09/18/BA7L1L5O52.DTL

    I like Bill and his family back in the day KNEW my family, but it DOES look like he could have handled SOME things better (See Story)

  163. wan8iv,

    speaking only for myself, goodness, I’m not down on Belt. He just hasn’t been the rocketman everyone else expected. My opinion, in the end, on the low side, you get someone who exhibits Huff’s 2010 performance, in the right setting. On the high side, you get Hunter Pence at the plate, and somewhat less in the field. Either is a very good major league player, just not HOF material as some have hoped and many have hyped.

  164. ClutchUp

    I talk about the past so we can learn from our mistakes and don’t repeat them again. No huge contracts to aging vets. Build from within and remember what happened this year and don’t repeat it. Bochy is finally realizing what a lot of people on this board have been saying since May. Pill is a good player and should have been given a shot earlier. Young players are good for team moral.

    What a great sweep this weekend. We need the Pirates to do some serious damage.

  165. Giant PITA says:September 18th, 2011 at 3:34 pm 215..Pell Mell = Pall Mall

    Me thinks both spellings and pronunciations were acceptable…
    🙂

  166. @ ClutchUp #220:
    “So, did Christian just make a highlight reel?”
    >Answer: Yes. MLB (so I think) has FREE Watch the Condensed game; No audio only CROWD noise… Great play by Justin…Second Row down LF line

    Thanks. That’s great news (Christian’s play). I’ll take a look at MLB, but wi-fi is too slow methinks for me loading the stream. Loading a highlight clip sometimes takes too long… Like I was trying (the other night) to load that Nate clip I have bookmarked, gave up after 6 hours of trying. Yeah, I’m serious.

    But thanks for the info, I’ll give it a try.

    Dave on KNBR is saying Pill will be in against Kershaw. I don’t think it will be all about pitching and defense. I think one ace is gonna fold. Obviously, I hope it is Clayton and he does his best impression of an L.A. taco stand (and/or lawn chair). I wonder if BOTH aces will actually hold that duel to yet another 1-0 or 2-1 type of game. Could be lopsided by the 5th. I’m just sayin…

    Go Giants! Nice win for Cain today boys!

  167. Fit Panda a fact is you were one of the people who personally attacked Sandoval in a way that crossed the line last season. What ya gotta say now?

  168. dsf says: September 18th, 2011 at 3:39 pm 216..Anybody?Was Christian’s grab really in the 2nd row out there? Goodness, I got something to look forward to on the highlight clips when they’re posted… Oh yeah, I’d guess some long balls will make it up there too, huh? LOL. So, Christian looks more settled on his routes & angles in big league parks to those of you watching? Do the ‘regular’ plays look easy for him?

    —Dave:

    YES * YES * YES * YES

  169. Souza – last year my handle was Fat Panda because Pablo played himself out of a job by being too fat. This year, my handle reflects his efforts to take better care of himself and emerge as the team leader he’s supposed to be.

    What more do you want me to say? Last year: Fat. This year: Fit.

    Which part is confusing you?

  170. Lunchbox says: September 18th, 2011 at 3:49 pm 226..I’m not looking forward to Christian/Torres at the top of the line-up for the next few games. Christian is showing he can’t hit major league pitching consistently…

    —Disagree…Give Christian ENOUGH at bats and he’ll get on first base ANYWAY he can, similar to catching that foul ball 2-3 rows deep.

    —Christians overall baseball acumen/IQ is way more than Andres and I adore Andres, predominantly for what he did in 2010.

  171. ClutchUp

    dont tell me that you are buying the current leak

    has baer written all over it

  172. Fit Panda

    —I have NEVER buried my head in the sand regarding Belt. At 6’5 all my posts said his hitting journey would have SEVERE peaks and valleys…

    —IMHO at one time…Belt was listening to TOO many people. (BamBam-Will Clark-JT Snow-Duston-Beltran-Fresno-San Jose) That in itself is HIS fault….

    —I agree with most of what you say, but his learning curve will be dramaticly impacted by the obvious holes within the body of a 6’5 hitter. On a normal player 5’11 – -6’2 player the strike zone is SEVEN baseball Wide and NINE baseball’s vertically. With Belt his strike zone/hitting zone is BIGGER up and down, and thus pitchers have more to exploit.

    —Thanks for the diaologe—

  173. @ Giant PITA #227:
    >Christian’s catch was on a foul ball down the left field line. He reached over the short wall out into the 2nd row, making the catch as he fell into the crowd. Great grab.

    Wow, thank you for taking time to reply and describe this. I appreciate it. So, glad for all those empty rows of seats in Denver, huh? LOL. I’m psyched to see it, and feel certain it will be on the Giants site or MLB site for team highlights. I’ll check it out at some point.

    I always feel a great defensive play can help as much as a homer. Or, maybe in this case, it helps keep the momentum and the great vibe humming. Carry this into Chavez Ravine? Yes, please! You betcha!

    Sad there are only 3 home games left… At this point, anyways… Maybe, there can be more? But we gotta follow this team down this stretch. It’s funny how this turned into such an exciting September for Giants fans.

    Gosh, oh golly. Who would’ve THOUGHT. After we got body slammed in Houston for two games and practically kicked sideways by the Astros/Cubs for three consecutive games just a couple whiles ago.

    Go Giants! WooHoo!

  174. Walt:

    Matier and Ross are beholden to know one, thus I believe people like Bruce Jenkins, Mark Purdy, Matier and Ross more than I do Ray Ratto or Ann Killion…

    But, to each his own. Not everyone can be wrong. Doubt that it was ALL about IPads to watch yourself take swings…

  175. Seats weren’t empty, dsf. He grabbed it below about 4 fans’ gloves well into the 2nd row (barely had his feet still outside the stands). Great grab by Christian.

  176. ClutchUp 212.

    Agreed!

    Was that Pall Malls, Lucky Strikes or Camels without the filters?

  177. mitchvman says: September 18th, 2011 at 4:23 pm 245..ClutchUp 212.
    Was that Pall Malls, Lucky Strikes or Camels without the filters?

    —Mitch: All of the above + Cools w/filter…

    Yikes, what were WE thinking ?

  178. @ avwh #248 (& Giant PITA):
    >Seats weren’t empty, dsf. He grabbed it below about 4 fans’ gloves well into the 2nd row (barely had his feet still outside the stands). Great grab by Christian.

    Sounds almost like a “Jeter”! Wow, that’s nice. I read Giant PITA say “the crowd”. I (very badly) tried to condense my post length by kinda assuming there must not have been a BIG crowd right there. Or was thinking to ask if it was Giants fans and they helped clear out of his way.

    Or The Rox simply don’t have fans that understood they could’ve hindered Christian (but hey, it was already 12-5 in the 9th, right? So, okay).

    Anyways, thank you also for the description. (no need to reply to this). I’ll wait and check the highlight when it is posted. I wanna see Cainer’s HR swing to straightaway CF! I think it was Flem that said it might’ve been the hardest and best-hit of all the Giants homers today! Geez. Way to help you help yourself Matt!

    ———–

    I figure if we can beat Kershaw, it goes beyond a “must win”. I think it could bring in that feeling of “invincibility” we seemed to pick up after we beat ATL in the post-season. It felt to me like “PHI can’t stop us.” And then, “Texas WON’T stop us.”

    Yeah, we NEED the win to keep putting pressure on AZ and others. But I think it is more than that. We start in LA, if we can thump Kershaw early. Maybe we get him to crack. I say MAYBE. How sweet if we could post 3 early, or 4 runs in five innings? I could see the idea that the following games we’d then have a MUCH better chance to win.

    Conversely? If Lincecum gets pushed around and leaves by the fourth or fifth? I worry our spirits could deflate quickly. Wasn’t it (not sure?) Sat Sept. 3rd that was a Lincecum start vs. AZ. I still feel that loss was a really tough one to try to re-group from. We lost 4 of the next 6.

    If our attitude can stay UPBEAT and POSITIVE… We just might be able to knock out Kershaw in four or five innings. That would be sooo good. It could happen. I’m just sayin’…

    BEAT L.A.

  179. The amount of REFRESHING needed on this site is tortue….

    —I get use to it, but then sometimes it’s laborious…

  180. —Nothing is Impossible just likely improbable….ONLY due to the road ahead is arduous at best…

    —My main concern is if we RUN out of even a little bit of magic I won’t be able to come on here with OUT reading all the experts who want to rehash games K*L*M*N and then W*X*Y and Z.

    —That wont be good for me to see and I know it will happen because even during an 8 game winning streak several experts here “knew more than those that actually play and coach the game”…

  181. —Note Crawford’s balanced and very QUIET swing especially during his HR.

    —He wasn’t always one who choked up, but he is doing it now…

    —If Hunter Pence does it because our guy #25 did it then its good to see Crawford choking up for all the right reasons…

    —His bobble was NO big deal….

  182. @dsf

    No worries. Wasn’t upset. Had to split. Gotta go right now but didn’t want to leave you hanging. Stupid Niners.

    Talk to you later tonight.

    vgf

  183. We have awakened a sleeping Giant.

    Or a lineup full of sleeping Giants.

    I still have little no playoff expectations, but I am rooting hard! What a story it would be. And if momentum is the single most important tool for survival in the crap shoot that is the MLB playoffs, then our toolbox is chalk full.

  184. Happy to see all the little whiny girls back on the band wagon. Installed just for you a revolving door so you may jump on and off as frequently as you like.

    GO GIANTS!

  185. Lincecum vs Kershaw:
    ______________

    CF Christian
    2B DeRosa
    RF Beltran
    3B Sandoval
    1B Pill
    C H. Sanchez
    SS Keppinger
    LF Belt

    I doubt this is remotely close to what Bochy writes down. Yes, I say Keppinger at SS. I know, I know. I’ll take my chances on this one, this one time.

    No doubt Crawford gets in there for defense (if I have any say). In fact, I’d use the FIRST really good scoring opportunity to switch. Burrell could pinch-hit for Christian, Kepp, or DeRosa if there’s a scoring opp. Maybe Bochy would insert Burrell for a 2-on in the fourth and 1-out situation? Then, switch Burrell RIGHT OUT of there for Crawford.

    I know we don’t have a lot of RH bats, even on a 40-man roster. Torres? Burriss? Ford? (no O Cab, period.) If I set this starting line-up. I’d live with it… And stay with it… If you get to face a RHP from the pen, you (obviously) got more moves available.

    But I’d say this line-up might give the best chance to score. And even with Timmy pitching, we can’t win with a shutout. So, I risk Kepp at SS. I know he isn’t hot at the plate. I also know it is a fair chance Crawford still gets more AB’s than Kepp if I stick to an aggressive/early switch. I’m okay with all that.

    Any thoughts?

  186. @ VGF #255:
    Just heard a recap of the 49ers. Ouch. I thought I watched the Cowboys kicker shank one early. Guess he got the ultimate redemption for that one, eh?

    Bummer. The Niners actually looked pretty solid in what I saw. I saw the DET- KC score posted at one point in the game. OMG. Is DET for real? But I digress…

    BEAT L.A.

  187. @dsf #258,

    I’d go with the best possible defense against Kershaw. I don’t think your proposed lineup has any real improved chance to score than our best defensive lineup. I’m looking for a stare down between Kershaw and Tim and a 0-0 game being turned over to the pens, then we beat the LA BP to win it.

  188. Another day, another win, another display of poor OF play by Tito’s boyfriend.

    Love it that the kids—Pablo and the Brandons—are doing so well.

    Really looking forward to a full season of these guys, Pill, and the return of Buster tand Nate. Maybe Gary Brown, too.

  189. So if the miracle happens. Is Crawford, Pill and Hector available for post season? I forgot if they came up early or Sept 1st. Can someone fill me in?

  190. re: timmy vs kershaw posts……i don’t think our freak has beaten kershaw yet and all the broadcasters, his coaches and teammates say he is one of the most competitive people they’ve ever met. so i’m thinkin’ timmy is going to be in full throttle game mode – he wants badly to beat kershaw and as cody ross said when he saw TL walk into the clubhouse for WS game 5 last year…..”WE’RE GONNNNNAAAAA WIIINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!” can’t wait….maybe it’s the whole enchallada tuesday night ????

  191. @CC,

    Has a statement been made that Pablo will not be able to swing righty by Tuesday. The team has a day off tomorrow to rest and get him some treatment. Even if he can’t swing righty, I still hope Bochy plays him.

  192. @pacman68

    Only Pill was called up before Sept. 1. If the Giants make it this season, and either Cabrera and/or one of the catchers is injured, then the Giants can put Crawford and Sanchez in there to take their spot.

  193. I am absolutely amazed that there are people who want Keppinger back, including some writers: Why? First off, yes he might hit for a decent average but with no power, no speed and he NEVER WALKS! Don’t we have a low enough team OBP as it is? For the Giants he’s hit .266/.299/.354 and, he’s a God-awful fielder with a lousy arm and the absolutely slowest feet and throwing release I’ve ever seen. Has anyone noticed how many DP’s he DOESN’T turn?

    Add to that his $2.3 million salary, which is eligible for arbitration and yeah, this is what we need; a $3 million player who does nothing well sitting on the bench. He wasn’t benched because he was punished for his bunt (which, by the way, was God-awful and only worked because Street threw it away! You’re gonna give Keppinger credit for that? Amazing), he was benched because he’s sucked: 5 for his last 34 with one XBH. Yeah, he’s just what we need.

  194. goodsam,

    Tuesday does have the feeling of a big game, heres hoping Lincecum shows up with his A stuff and fastball command. Duel of the year. Great baseball. Go Giants!

  195. NLLSGF,

    Keppinger can hit enough to justify his MI defense, even as a stop gap replacement at SS. That makes him a tradable asset at a minimum as some team always needs one, much like a decent hitting catcher always has value.

    Otherwise, while he is low OBP, he does get hits and can drive in runs, which has value when put in the right part of the order, as in 6th or 7th instead of 2nd.

  196. @ TitoMac

    Nice to see you’re back touting Beltran now that he’s actually hitting. Maybe if we ever seem him flash the leather you can change your handle, yet again, to something along the lines of a Carlos mantra.

    The wheels are falling off the Beltran bandwagon. He was a no-show in August, after approving his trade to SF, plays defense at half-speed, belongs in LF when Nate is healthy and already has a new 2012 team and an undeservingly large 2012 contract on his mind.

    If Carlos the Overappreciated cools off again I’m sure you’ll either disappear or start posting more as The Idiot (not to say you aren’t always posting as the idiot — especially when posting as Tito).

  197. You forgot the shot of Beltran picking schmegma out of his eye while everyone else was cheering for Crawford, HHP.

  198. I was over looking at the Diamondback site and I would suspect there is almost as much interest in Phoenix as the Bay Area in the Kershaw start in LA. It’s there feeling as well, that game may determine the NL West. It is going to a Wild West show it seems till season’s end.

  199. channelclemente #263 According to Baggs, Bochy left him in to try for the cycle again. But yeah I don’t know what other options they have for Tuesday, DeRosa again?

  200. LOL and the last few posts!!!

    great win today, great sweep, great game, kids!!!

    how many games have we won w/ Craw at SS?
    how many HR’s per game has Belt hit this month?
    how many HR’s per game has Pill hit this month?

    let the kids play!
    they’ve energized this team…stick w/ the winning recipe

  201. No Longer Long Suffering Giants Fan

    These Idiots do not know if they are coming or going. Long suffereing they are clamoring for rooks on the interstate to get more PT and we have been out of this thng for the last 2 months LOL

    GO GIANTS! BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE! I see bright, bright, sun shiny days.

    One thing for sure at least someone has not given up on this team once this year.

  202. NatesfanMom

    are you hoping Nate lands in Baltimore so you do not have to change colors?

    GO GIANTS! I see bright, bright, sun shiny days.

  203. Gerbik,

    that makes sense for one AB, but my guess, there may have been more to it. Let’s hope so, he’s King Kong right now.

    Against Kershaw, who’s in leadoff is critical as well. Batters who get count leverage against Kershaw (0-0, 1-0, 2-0..) are hitting .300 against him. If you get down, your toast. The other thing is Kershaw tires, Lincecum can get stronger. Getting pitches out of him is critical, above 60 pitches, he’s allowing a BA of .262.

    Now lets go get the sob.

  204. Tuesday is #9

    Kershaw is just another innocent name in the way of the Giants buzz saw offense lead by Carlos Beltran.

    IEE YIE YIE!

  205. @channelclemente: too bad the leadoff hitters we have don’t work the count, and always swing for the fences. *Points finger at Torres*

  206. My comment about predicting the win/loss before the first pitch was aimed more at the chorus of “we’re gonna lose!” based on X, Y, Z either playing or not playing. Some of those predictions are based on emotions, others on stats.

    My point is how well a player was doing a month ago no longer applies. Overall stats no longer apply. With the team on a roll and ALL participating in that roll, consider the highest stats that player has had, because the CURRENT performance level is at that level for the majority of the players.

    =======
    Good 10yo scrimmage. I don’t see a lot of a budding Buster Posey, but I do see a lot of enthusiasm and good instincts. A great diving tag to make the last out at home! But I asked the coach to invest a little time with my grandson’s physical positioning as catcher – start by fixing his feet in the squat. The kid needs to hear that fix from the coach, not just from grandma. 😉

  207. Seems Tooter Turtle is on the scene.

    Tooter – Help me, Mr. Wizard.

    Mr. Wizard – Drizzle, drazzle, druzzle, drome; time for zis one to come home.

    Mr. Wizard to Tooter – Be just vhat you is, not vhat you is not. Folks vhat do zis are ze happisest lot.

    Sadly, Tooter never learned.

    vgf

  208. While we’re waiting for ExtraBaggs’ post-game thoughts, here’s some fodder for parlor game enthusiasts:

    Baseball fans are the biggest agnostics. They are very skeptical about things like miracles, about putting too much blind faith in hope.

    But, when hope refuses to die, it’s hard not to start believing, to start praying to the Baseball Gods.

    for more, click on my name. Thanks!

  209. @ Steve Harmon

    Perhaps it’s b/c many agnostics, as well baseball fans subscribe to the order of numbers, rationality and odds. We believe in statistical relevance over faith.

    But hope transcends all belief.

  210. for anyone who wants to hear what can happen next season w/payroll and player acquisitions listen to John Shea w/MartyLurie on KNBR from yesterday.
    It’s a good interview and quite sobering about what the Giants can really do as far as $$ for players–one of the bottom lines was those dreaded Zito and Rowand contracts 19 and 12 Million that will have to be paid.
    The raises and the FA’s and Arbitration cases that are coming.

  211. @ steve harmon,

    I enjoyed and agreed with your post from yesterday. Nice job!

  212. Remember your dad at the company picnic softball game and he was all elbows and out of breath as he ran from first to third ….and he was bent over and hacking …and you said to yourself. “that looks like Aubrey huff”……

  213. @ S. Harmon,

    A couple things from your GW post tonight:

    “They responded well, defeating the San Diego Padres to avert a sweep and halt a three-game winning streak.”

    Shouldn’t that be three-game losing streak?

    Also, concerning the pitching match-ups in AZ… Don’t you think it is more than likely that Surkamp will be skipped due to the day off tomorrow?

  214. Bochy should approach Kershaw and totally go against the norm. I know he won’t do that but he should totally shake it up and not pay attention to lefty righty garbage.

    1. Christian
    2. Kepp
    3. Beltran
    4. Pablo
    5. Pill
    6. Belt
    7. Crawford
    8. Hector

  215. Looking forward to the Game Tuesday night. There is about 11k Dodger fans showing up these days. Hopefully We Giants fans will drown them all out.

    Peacefully, of course!

  216. @pacman #291,

    I wish Bochy had it in him to run with your lineup (it’s the same one I’d use), but sadly I don’t see him capable of staying away from his propensity for lefty/righty match-ups and vet love.

  217. 291….

    No way that happens….only 2 guys over 30…

    Bochy would have a heart attack filling out the card….

  218. Actually, who is going to play LF Tuesday night? It’s going to have to be Belt right… Bochy would dare start Burrell, would he?

  219. If the Giants manage to scratch across a few runs for Lincecum, they could finally put Kershaw in the loss column. Lincecum is 54-4 when the Giants score at least three runs for him, and San Francisco has posted an incredible 53-9 record this season when scoring four runs or more.

    The Giants are 42-2 this year when recording three hits or more with runners in scoring position.

    http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_09_20_sfnmlb_lanmlb_1&mode=preview&vkey=preview_web_away&c_id=sf

  220. @PITA

    No advantage to skipping Surkamp. Lincecum scheduled to pitch 3rd game of Az series. To get Vogelsong in series Lincecum and Vogelsong would have to pitch on 3 day rest.

    vgf

  221. @Cow 273

    Yeah, wasn’t Beltran’s enthusiasm and love for team play simply overwhelming (sic)?

  222. It will be interesting to see what kind of lineup Bochy trots out vs. Kershaw. I don’t know if we can afford to put Christian and Torres both in there vs. Kershaw. I would go with Christian in CF because he faced Kershaw last time and went 1 for 3 and Torres struggles from right side. I would still go with Pablo vs. Kershaw. Pill will be at 1B. Keppinger back at 2B after a couple days off. Belt in LF and Crawford at SS even vs. the lefty. Hector Sanchez catching Timmy. Great series, big 8 game winning streak. But Tuesday’s duel is definitely a battle.

    Probable Lineup Tues:
    1 Christian or Torres CF
    2 Keppinger 2B
    3 Beltran RF
    4 Sandoval 3B
    5 Pill 1B
    6 Belt LF
    7 Sanchez C
    8 Crawford SS
    9 Lincecum P

    Need the best defense and can’t change the lineup minus the platoon of Huff and Pill, CF platoon and catcher rotation. The rest of the core needs to stay. Lets go boys. Can we be perfect?! One game at a time and it is about time to beat Kershaw and L.A.!

  223. @ Giant PITA#260::
    >I’m looking for a stare down between Kershaw and Tim and a 0-0 game being turned over to the pens, then we beat the LA BP to win it.

    Hmmm. It always could happen. If it does, I’ll certainly remember your thoughts here before hand.
    —————

    @ channelclemente #279:

    Good info re: Kershaw! Thanks for sharing it.
    —————–
    @ wan8iv #287:
    >for anyone who wants to hear what can happen next season w/payroll and player acquisitions listen to John Shea w/Marty Lurie on KNBR from yesterday….

    I wrote up a fairly substantial explanation of Giants 2012 payroll on the “POSTGAME NOTES: Giants hit easy Street”, 9/17/2011. Post #96″

    I don’t have anything to make from this or promote from this. I just try to share some of my thoughts & findings. But honestly? Most of my posts just seem ignored. I thought people might actutally appreciate me pointing out our dire payroll issue for 2012. So, I’ll probably not be posting here much longer. I like when there is more “discussion”.

    Now, it seems to me that people just skip over all the comments, and type their own comments in and leave or something. I’m likely going to stop posting here and just continue reading Baggs posts.

  224. Man, dsf:

    Relax. You’re behing heard. If you’re out, you’re out. You probably have it right about the skipping but you’ll get it figured out and find a happy medium.

    I know about your post. It’s true. I countered with a spreadsheet like column that totals all the contracts without a FA acquisition that came up the same as you’ve proposed @ $115,000,000.00 +/- 2%.

    Everybody else:

    Here’s a plan for Lincecum. How about throwing a shutout of the Dodgers and earning that hefty arbitration award or multi-year extension? The one that will be in the 18mil/year ballpark.

    Dude’s had a great year, but its time to put the money where the mouth is and deliver a playoff caliber performance. No pressure though, just like the rest of the team.

    This team plays better with a fork in them, so we better keep it in them.

  225. @vgf #300,

    Here’s what I was thinking with the pitching the rest of the way:

    9/20 LA: Tim
    9/21 LA: Song
    9/22 LA: Surkamp
    9/23 AZ: Madbum
    9/24 AZ: Cain
    9/25 AZ: Tim
    9/26 COL: Song
    9/27 COL: Surkamp
    9/28 COL: Madbum

    This set up keeps the rook out of the AZ series.

  226. @dsf

    I’m still here. But I know how you feel. Giants winning yet things get chippier than before. Considered doing the same.

    Post #283. Do you get what I’m trying to do?

    vgf

  227. @ dsf & vgf,

    Just because you do not always get direct responses to particular posts does not mean you are not being heard, understood, or considered relevant. Please don’t take a lack of direct response personally. You both continually contribute great stuff to this forum and would be missed if you choose to stop doing so.

  228. Hey, @GiantPita, thanks for the catch on the winning/losing streak. I fixed that.

    On whether they would pass Surkamp, it’s something I imagine Bochy is considering. But he’d have to throw both Lincecum and Vogelsong on three day’s rest. It just doesn’t seem like something he would do, especially this late in the season (though you could argue that he would precisely because it’s this late in the season with so much on the line).

    The one good thing about Surkamp going in the first game is that he’d face Collmenter, whom the Giants can hit. So, he’d get some offensive backing, wouldn’t have to worry about throwing a no-hitter to win.

  229. @ PITA

    First, thanks for the kind words. My reasons are a little different than dsf’s, just wanted him to know that I feel for him, and others too.

    There have a few people out there that have mentioned they’d love to post more but it’s not worth the grief they would have to put up with to do so.

    I read this blog for a long time, years actually, before I decided to give it a try. Unfortunatly, I’m at the plus vs minus point in my thinking.

    Not speaking for dsf, but my guess is he feels like he’s talking to himself. I always try to acknowledge people when they respond to my posts. And, when possible, give a shout out to people when they say something I admire.

    My problem, as I’ve stated, is all the bitterness. Mostly by trolls.
    Once the “troubles” start, the dialog stops.

    But once again, thanks PITA. I enjoy your contributions.

    vgf

  230. @Giant Pita: Wow. Lemme reverse myself. Your rotation is a great idea. Nobody would have to throw off a three-game rest. Flipping Bumgarner and Surkamp is genius! Brilliant!

    It may, however, depend on how well they do in the first two vs. LA. If they absolutely need to win that third game, maybe Bochy wants to put the ball in MadBum’s hand.

  231. Torres had two walks and scored two runs. No hits, but he had the right idea. I guess I’d just as soon see him as Christian while Ross is out. Very similar strengths, but Torres can do more for you. Christian’s catch in the 8th was amazing, but Torres makes highlight reel catches, too.

    It was SO great to see Wilson out there, and looking sharp, too.

    dsf, boy, did you call it in your pregame “instructions” to the team. You even nailed Cain’s HR and Font being HBP! Are you psychic or a time traveler or something?

    Crawford is looking great at the plate lately, and Belt should play every single game from here on. No more Huff, Cabrera, or Whiteside. You’re on vacay, guys, thanks for playing.

  232. to quote a wise fish:

    just keep swimmin, swimmin swimmin swimmin…

    I sure hope Craw gets the nod against the Fodgers on Tuesday, but I’m skeptical that he will. Bochy loves his L-R matchups. We can probably expect to see Pill at least though.

    Let’s go get #9, we gotta have Timmy’s best. He’s been outdueled by Kershaw so far this year, time to step up when it matters most. Go get ’em Timmy!

  233. @vgf,

    I think alot depends on when a reader joins the thread. For instance when I join late and there are possibly a hundred or more posts I find it hard to jump in immediately when I read one worthy of a response, especially since I don’t know what else has been said in response until I get through all the posts. Then, by the time I do that, it seems like so long ago in relative timeline of the thread. Make sense?

    Also, thanks for your kind words. Ignore the trolls and keep sharing your stuff, it’s good!

    What do you think of my pitching rotation thought at #305?

  234. @S. Harmon #311,

    Thanks. You’re right, all hinges on winning in LA. However, the third game in LA is agains Kuroda, who the Giants lit up last time.

  235. Oh brother, more whining about Beltran’s “lack of passion” blah, blah, blah. FYI – just because a vet doesn’t jump up and down and shake black and orange pom-poms after every HR doesn’t mean he hates the game of baseball. Beltran is not an emotive guy – that’s just the way he is. I could see the hate if he was a jerk but he’s not. He’s actually a pretty decent guy with an awesome bat. Sorry, he doesn’t give some of you enough “feeling”. Maybe he should take Method acting so he can please the “show more spirit” part of the fan base.

  236. LoveMyGiants says:September 18th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Beltran is not an emotive guy –

    —-Is emotive like Mike Singletary last year saying he loved the physicality of the game and his players were going to physical with and F??

    —Your correct. Carlos is even keeled and blah, blah, however he continues to RAKE the ball better than anyone on the Giants or even in the AL…however is will be either a DL in the AL or he and Boras will (ONCE AGAIN I Repeat) Find an NL or AL park with an outfield configuration where he can cover RF.

    —Carlos is kind of like an aging ZORRO. Suave and Debonair, but no longer capable of jumping up on a horse while it is still moving…

  237. Beltran’s attitude bothers me too. Not whining, it just bothers me. I’m sure it was mentioned – when Crawford homered and they showed Pablo sitting next to Beltran. Pablo was happy for his teammate, cheering, and Beltran was scratching his eye. Maybe he just isn’t an emotional guy, but it comes off as “I don’t give a rat’s ass about any of you guys”. Not exactly the sentiment you want from a guy in a “team” sport.

    It doesn’t take much to create animosity in a club house, and animosity kills chemistry. It clearly isn’t a problem though…yet.

  238. @LoveMyGiants. Beltran’s bane is that he’s always right next to Pablo, who makes his emotionless responses look downright cold compared to the Panda’s effusive cheerleading.

    As you suggest, it’s all in the accounting: look up the numbers, and he’s doing just fine, holding up his end of the bargain as the Giants spark hope here in the final days.

  239. dsf says:September 18th, 2011 at 5:03 pmLincecum vs Kershaw:
    CF Christian2B DeRosaRF Beltran3B Sandoval1B PillC H. SanchezSSKeppingerLF Belt

    —Keppinger will hardly play the left side of the IF – in 2012 let alone during the last amount of games….in 2011.

    —His range is funky. Can’t explain it, but watching, you know what I mean.

  240. pacman68 says:September 18th, 2011 at 5:52 pmSo if the miracle happens. Is Crawford, Pill and Hector available for post season? I forgot if they came up early or Sept 1st. Can someone fill me in?

    —Pac: Anybody on the 40 man could be folded INTO a 25 man postseason roster. In order to be called up on Sept One, SF had to either have purchased their contract (last minute and put them on the 40 IE Pill) or they already had to be on the 40 man

  241. I believe that only players that were on the 25-man or the DL as of midnight on 8/31 are eligible for the post season roster. I don’t think Hector qualifies. He could only be added to replace someone who was injured and put on the DL.

  242. channelclemente says:September 18th, 2011 at 5:52 pmAnybody else think Bochy let Sandoval go lefty on lefty as look and see experiment for Kershaw Tuesday?

    —I think Pablo had that same opportunity about 10 days ago on a road trip and declined…Can’t Remember…

  243. PITA,

    Re your pitching rotation: I always liked these kind of logic problems in school. I was trying to figure out how to get Cain two more starts and keep Surkamp out of the AZ rotation:

    9/20: Timmy
    9/21: Bum
    9/22: Surkamp
    9/23: Cain
    9/24: Vogey
    9/25: Timmy
    9/26: Bum
    9/27: Surkamp
    9/28: Cain

    That gets everyone but Vogey two more starts and keeps everyone on normal rest. I’d rather have Vogey twice than Surkamp, but I’d rather have Cain twice than either of them. And it is important to not have Surkamp in AZ.

    Thinking even further–for a tiebreaker game you have Vogey or Timmy on three days rest or Vogey and then Timmy already for the NLDS.

    Whaddya think?

  244. The Wisdom Cow says:September 18th, 2011 at 6:41 pmYou forgot the shot of Beltran picking schmegma out of his eye while everyone else was cheering for Crawford, HHP.

    —WSCow:

    —Smegma…absolutely hilarious. Hope TitoIdiot knows how to Google or Urban legend that and uses it for his new name.

    —Carlos should have been under that fly ball when it came down. Many outfielders catch that: Bernard, Rios, DLew, Matthews, Maddox, Belt, Nate, Rowand, Christian, Winn, Linden, Niekro, Randy Elliot, Both Bonds, Fred Lewis and Bowker…

    —Weak a$$ attempt for a future hall of famer but no longer a 5 tool player…

  245. Dinero – That’s how Beltran comes across TO YOU. You’re projecting your own feelings about Beltran’s behavior on to the other players. You really don’t know how the players feel about him or whether they care that he didn’t congratulate Crawford. My guess is that most of the players respect Beltran as player and accept him for who he is.

  246. Rule 40(a), a player must be on his club’s active big league roster or disabled list (or bereavement list, suspended list, or military list) on August 31 in order to be eligible for post-season play.

  247. @PITA #314 #305

    First part of post. Makes perfect sense.

    Second part of post.

    That’s the way to do it. Surkamp stays on schedule, Bumgarner gets extra day rest. (which he could use)

    Thought: Will Phillies tank Atl series so they don’t have to face Giants?

    (If it gets to that point)

    vgf

  248. Playoff Rosters: Playoff rosters must be set at 25, not including disabled players, on August 31. For each player on the 60-day DL, teams may add players to the eligible list during the playoffs at the same position, provided that they were in the orginization on August 31… Teams must choose 25 players from their playoff eligible list before each round of the playoffs.

  249. @ LoveMyGiants – I didn’t project anything on to anybody. Maybe you should re-read my post.

  250. @ Lefty,

    I’d like Cain to get two starts as well, but since he pitched today it’s tough. Agree Vogey twice and Surkamp just once is probably better. I like that fact that with my rotation Cain is ready to go on 4 days rest for a tie breaker game though.

  251. @ All:

    Thanks for chiming in and your kind words. I’m not trying to cry out for attention. I guess I’m just a bit (too much?) of an idealist. I find a lot of great info/knowledge from a few here. I realize it takes work to data mine stats and relevant info/links…

    My philosophy? If it takes somebody 30 minutes to write something they spent an hour working on, and it takes 40 seconds to read something I appreciate? I can at the very least type SIX letters “t-h-a-n-k-s”. I try, but can’t always keep up (like VGF, and I’m sure others). I hope it helps others feel acknowledged so they continue doing what they do.
    ———————–

    @ VGF #306:
    >Post #283. Do you get what I’m trying to do?

    I hadn’t a clue what you were trying to do? Make it rain or something, sorry for my ignorance. But it was good, fun reading nonetheless.
    ———–
    @ Giant PITA #307:
    >You both [VGF] continually contribute great stuff to this forum

    Many thanks. You do as well, much appreciated.
    ———–
    @ VGF #310:
    >but my guess is he feels like he’s talking to himself.

    That about sums it up.

    I’ll continue doing my thing, just do I go through the motions of being active here or just keep it to myself? How many read my Lincecum vs. 7 Legends stats? I was gonna post a link if I got some thanks or feedback. Alas, VGF- were you the only that entered a discussion w/ me on that? Just as a “for example”.
    ————–
    @ Lefty #312:
    >dsf, boy, did you call it in your pregame “instructions” to the team. You even nailed Cain’s HR and Font being HBP! Are you psychic or a time traveler or something?

    See? One person saying a few kind words. Thanks for the kind words. I’ve come up with some things, for the past few games. They HAPPENED to be very specifically accurate. I “see” a lot in sports. I try to separate my ‘fan emotion’ and ‘think of what is likely going on’.

    Maybe some can understand what I mean if/when reading my scouting reports on players & future projections. (I worry) that maybe some just read me as arrogant and full of it. Or most here think they’ve already noticed as much or more than I have?

    I picked the ’99 STL Rams before the season started- even after Trent Green went down, I believed they’d do it. I had the Niners vs. Chargers Super Bowl game EXACT score (not spread) within 3 points. I tried to warn people about the San Diego Padres before the season started last year. The word I used was “sneaky”. People laughed me off.

    I don’t necessarily know more, some here no doubt know more than me about baseball. I just see how things factor together. Like kinesiology (is that a crime in TX?) and some team dynamics.

    I’m not trying to puff up my chest, really. But some here have tried to discredit me about things I’ve said, and I’d defer to them to take into consideration whether my words could POSSIBLY be credible.
    ————–

    For the last day or two, I’ve thought about posting more about my 2012 payroll concerns, but I feared it would be ignored/dismissed or cause more voices to complain about ‘fantasy’ posting stuff or long posts.

  252. —Surkamp pitches in LA but then gets skipped for the Snakes.

    —Bochy already told Jon Miller on one of his pregame shows…

  253. Lefty says:September 18th, 2011 at 9:51 pmTorres had two walks and scored two runs. No hits, but he had the right idea. I guess I’d just as soon see him as Christian while Ross is out. Very similar strengths, but Torres can do more for you. Christian’s catch in the 8th was amazing, but Torres makes highlight reel catches, too.

    —No big deal but I disagree. The NL has zero how to pitch book on Christian whereas Torres has been pitched to all year….

    —I don’t think Andres provides more than Justin…but understand your points.

  254. @ LoveMyGiants – considering how many fans are bothered by Beltran’s disposition, I don’t think it’s too big a leap to think that it might also get to the occasional player. Players are only human.

    Granted, maybe he is a great teammate behind closed doors, so the on-field stuff doesn’t bother the guys. That would explain why the chemistry and morale on the team seems hight than it has been all season.

    But the on-field stuff still bugs me.

  255. @dsf

    just a shout out to ya–have enjoyed yur posts, esp yur campaign:

    “keep belt up” (that was your slogan, right?)

    i am guilty of not keeping up w/ this thread–it moves very quickly, and my phone/ipad/computer updates slowly, so i often don’t get through all the posts, much less have a chance to respond to the posts i appreciate most.

    many others here whose posts i learn much from and would like to acknowledge, esp those who discuss baseball, not themselves.

    dsf, you’re certainly one of ’em

    keep posting!

  256. I watched the game and then the highlights on MLB, and I agree–Beltran coulda, shoulda caught that RBI double. He chose to play it off the wall.

    I keep remembering that 2003 commercial where Life Coach Dave(?) Bob(?) is explaining to Marquis Grissom and Jose Cruz Jr. that they’re going to play the “inner outfield” and the “outer outfield,” and Grissom scowls and says “So where the hell is Barry gonna play?” Dave/Bob/Whoever says, “Oh–he’s over there, conserving energy.” Bonds waves cheerfully from his recliner out in LF.

    Beltran reminds me of this. The Giants had a huge lead. Why should he turn on the jets to catch that double? Bonds made these kinds of decisions all the time. Love it, hate it, but it’s a cost/benefit analysis Beltran is doing.

    That said, in these days of constant replays, MLB channel, etc., Beltran might consider at least pretending to show some enthusiasm when his young teammate hits a homer or a respected vet like DeRo gets a walkoff hit. He’s auditioning for his next role, and if we can notice this stuff, so can other teams.

  257. @ All:Thanks for chiming in and your kind words. I’m not trying to cry out for attention. I guess I’m just a bit (too much?) of an idealist. I find a lot of great info/knowledge from a few here. I realize it takes work to data mine stats and relevant info/links…My philosophy? If it takes somebody 30 minutes to write something they spent an hour working on, and it takes 40 seconds to read something I appreciate? I can at the very least type SIX letters “t-h-a-n-k-s”. I try, but can’t always keep up (like VGF, and I’m sure others). I hope it helps others feel acknowledged so they continue doing what they do.

    —Dave—
    Food for thought. I am NOT nor never will be a Graph or Metrics guy. You and Foothills and others do a Great Job. I skip LONG vertical lineup posts because those posters could post lineups HORIZONTALLY IF THEY WANTED TO…You forgetting that you have to TIMES X your post with the other 300 on here.

    —There should also be a MAX length for all of us IMO.

    —I’d rather talk about “playing ball” not salaries or the Budget…”You get me the players and I’ll coach ’em”….is what I am talking about. People can’t balance their own check books….why bother with something that is not within our own pervue…

  258. @ clutch,

    Did Bochy say how he would set up the rotation when skipping Surkamp?

    There was just a little talk about Bdub’s return. The fact that he had a nice tight slider and didn’t just use the cutter. Looks like he’s the same old nasty Bdub, which is great news moving forward.

    I agree with your thoughts on Christian vs Torres. No book on Christian for the opposition pitchers and he’s looks like a plus defender and base runner. If we were talking about Torres 2010, then it would be a no brainer, but that guy is not on the 2011 team.

  259. ClutchUp: Yeah, good counterpoint. I’d add that Christian doesn’t (as far as I know) have Torres’s psychological fragility.

    My point was two walks and two runs is not a bad day for your leadoff guy. Most days I’ll take that. Plus I just have a soft spot for Torres. I’m sure we all do.

  260. @ Foothills Ryan #304:
    >I know about your post [re: 2012 payroll worries]. It’s true.

    Thanks. I had meant to reply to you actually. It’s worrisome, eh? While we have slightly different salary estimates, it essentially works out to the same bottom line. I mean, $3-5M for a CF and SS and lead-off? Maybe even a LF?

    That doesn’t give me great faith that Cain would want anything to do with our Giants. Or that we’d actually be competitive next year.

    My main concern isn’t whether prospects have potential. I think many of ours do. BUT. You can’t put 4 question marks into an NL line-up (with a pitcher) and expect great things to consistently happen offensively. One or two question marks (like Belt in LF and/or Schierholtz in RF) might be all we can handle. Pill platooning 1B might be another option.

    But not Christian in CF and Crawford at SS and Belt in LF and Schierholtz in RF and Pill/Huff at 1B. That is illogical IMHO.
    —————–

    @ ClutchUp #320:
    >Keppinger will hardly play the left side of the IF – in 2012 let alone during the last amount of games….in 2011. His range is funky. Can’t explain it, but watching, you know what I mean.

    I know, I agree. I think this game is a ‘singular’ situation where it would fit. I’ve coached alongside an Olympic head coach and sometimes you need to separate yourself and re-consider how things might be best. I’d want Crawford to finish the game. But 2 AB’s for a near career .300 RH bat isn’t the worst idea, and ‘worth it’ IMHO. I probably would NEVER do it again, regardless of the outcome.

    His range is a slow first step, not great flexibility and other factors. I think I know what you mean.

    It’s kinda a non-argument though. Since the likelihood of Bochy doing this is SO slim, I guess I could say ‘whatever I want’ and nobody could ever prove/disprove it. LOL. Ya know what I mean?

  261. Lefty says:September 18th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    —Soft-spot for Torres absolutely. The 2011 year will be a psychiatrists dream in hindsight. Showtime – WS Trophy Tour – White House visit DURING the season…BIG injuries (2) Pablo (40 games) and MORE injuries…INEPT offense and Nuekom…

    —Andres filmed back home in skin tight jeans ala Don Juan throwing brink motars up back over his head (nothing baseball specific) and the well known ADHD battles he fights. I posted over a year ago that dosages will need to be tweaked, altered and added in order for Andres to get full benefit of his medication.

    —Granted it must be a HUGE deal internally that the Giants med staff has to constantly clear through MLB baseball…

    —There is also that adage…11 yr career MiLB player who emerged in 2010 but…but…but has failed in 2011, probably due to no fault of his own…

  262. LoveMyGiants, you really need to make sure you know the video clip we are talking about before you go attributing the above comments to the projection subjective opinion. The guy didn’t even crack the tiniest of smiles while Pablo was cheering enthusiastically. He shoved a finger in his eye and then looked down.

    I never really bought into Beltran as a negative in the club house until that moment. [I had always been pretty clear the “chemistry” problem was the roster moves sending Belt and Crawford down that came with he and Cabrera, removing mentor-type and rook hazing relations, yada yada.] It was pretty clear Beltran did not give two poops about Crawford’s HR in any way.

  263. dsf says:September 18th, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    —Dave:

    —Your Olympic Coach reference and experience. Good point. Two years ago I called one of my best friends with the upper management Chi Cubs trying to find an MLB tryout or HOME for a soon to be DI College Pitcher at Santa Clara…

    —He cautioned me sternly about being emotionally attached to my recommendation, as he would then pass on my recommendations to his cross checker guys and area scouts and if they spent the money and time traveling out to see “him” and what I said did not match what they saw…my credibility would be history…..

    —Great LESSON. I backed off and have since learned from that lesson.

  264. @ PITA & Lefty:

    I think both your lineups have a lot of merit. Nice, thoughtful consideration. I’d say it’s a coin flip IMHO. However, I see a weird question mark in EACH.

    If we’re seriously in contention for a playoff spot… Would Bochy trust a young Surkamp on 9/27? Not to stir the pot that don’t need no stirring… But there’s this veteran lefty that we have sitting around… Actually TWO of ’em. Would one per-maybe-haps get the ball for that game? I’m not saying I want or don’t want… Just saying there would be a strong chance Bochy would consider one of ’em IMHO. Whaddaya think ’bout that?

    Both those rotations I would be really happy with. Sometimes Bochy tinkers, and other times he doesn’t. I can never figure him out. So, we’ll see huh?
    —————–
    @ E-B #337:
    >“keep belt up” (that was your slogan, right?)

    Yup, that was mine. Thanks for your kind words, very humbly appreciated. And I value your posts as well.
    ———–
    @ ClutchUp #340:
    >You and Foothills and others do a Great Job.

    Thanks. I’m not always on-board with ya when you’re calling out the trolls here. But I greatly value your other contributions here.

  265. Giant PITA says:September 18th, 2011 at 10:43 pm@ clutch,Did Bochy say how he would set up the rotation when skipping Surkamp?

    —No, but I am surprised more people did not here Bochy refer to this while talking to Miller…

    —It had much to do about Tomorrows day off though…

  266. @dsf

    As always, thanks for the kind words. As far as post #283.

    It’s my attemp to trap a troll. It’s like this: Tooter Turtle was a cartoon charater from my childhood. He was a dimwit turtle who always needed Mr. Wizard’s help. The dialog mentioned always occured in each episode. Long story short.

    Troll shows up on board. I make reference to fact he here but not by blog name or post #. Tooter Turtle as example. Then follow up with funny cometary about example charater.

    A couple of things can happen. Troll realizes you have insulted him and leaves. Troll barely smart enough to realize you’ve set trap so they can’t bother you. Troll truly dumb and attacks you and you’ve got them. After attack you simple respond to them by their real name and post number and just say ” Hi Turtle”. That’s it. They’ve unwittingly admitted that they are Tooter Turtle and everyone (who gets reference) can chime in. Not matter what they say everyone simply responds to them with “Hi Tooter”. Nothing else.

    There’s two things you can’t do to a troll.

    1. You can’t insult them. They love it when you try.
    2. You can’t try to reason with them. They don’t care.

    Their sole purpose is to disrupt ongoing conversations. And to draw attention to themselves. When you fight back they win. Every time.
    You can try to ignore them. But somebody always wants to tell them off. (Well meaning action, not criticizing anybody for confronting them)

    So I figure the only way to deal with them is to try use their own ignorance against them. And have some fun at their expence.

    So I say, give it a try. I’ll try to use more modern examples from now on.

    Stay tough my friend, maybe we’ll both get thourgh this.

    vgf

  267. Dave:@ ClutchUp #340:>You and Foothills and others do a Great Job.
    Thanks. I’m not always on-board with ya when you’re calling out the trolls here. But I greatly value your other contributions here.

    —Sorry, a weakness of mine. If it wasn’t for the Nate hate, Mr.DBACKS, hitman (LA) and all the Latino’s vs the rest of mankind I would rest it and shut up, but the Nate stuff is disgusting as was the EARLY trolls stuff on Bryan Stow…etc..

    —Apparently you are able to just move on? Not I said the blind man…

  268. Just a funny lil’ tidbit to lighten things (if needed?)…

    I went to a cafe today to get fast wi-fi… Was checking some vid clips of my new fave lead-off target acquisition… And I’ll be darned…

    He’s got a cherry red Hummer and video posted “Erick Aybar’s ride”…

    I’m like… Shizzle. Dint we just have a SS with a Humvee. Yeah, how’d THAT work out? Oh snap. Maybe I’ll be an Asdrubal Cabrera convert.

    What if we had to say “a great play by Cabrera at SS” and he’s the OTHER Indians SS. Maybe we can still get a 60-day exchange?

    “Our was broken when we got him. Could we have the other one, please?”

  269. @dsf #348,

    I don’t think either of our lefties sees the bump to start a game the rest of the way, especially not the super rich one!

  270. “And Then…He Was Gone…”

    —Early punch on time on Monday….See you all late morning early after noon….

    ——Bagg’s Post game….

  271. #350, VGF — L O L ! and good advice. i’m new at this blog stuff. also, have enjoyed your posts and learned much from them. thx.

    #328, VGF. You had asked, “Thought: Will Phillies tank Atl series so they don’t have to face Giants?”

    –Yes, if they don’t care a lick about making history by winning 105+ games.

    I think it was very clear from Manuel’s comments about Matt/Timmy, after losing 2 of 3 in their own yard, that r pitchers r indeed ‘in their hitter’s heads’. Although Manuel wz just trying to psyche up his hitters, the fact that he tried so hard made an even bigger statement than his words. His hitters really don’t want to face r pitchers.

    Q: do you think Phillies will tank StL series too? I think that would be more likely than tanking Atl, just cuz of pride stuff and momentum stuff? i dunno.

  272. @ VGF #350:
    >There’s two things you can’t do to a troll.

    1. You can’t insult them. They love it when you try.
    2. You can’t try to reason with them. They don’t care.

    Their sole purpose is to disrupt ongoing conversations. And to draw attention to themselves. When you fight back they win. Every time.
    —————

    Yeah, agree with you on all points here. But, have you seen me really talk trash yet? I’ve played some pretty crazy sports, and talking game takes time to build up to. I usually talk up a better game than I’ve got. But hey, if I can chirp at some chump and make him look at me while a ball beans him in the head, I’ve done alright methinks.

    Maybe they’ll never see it coming? For an example. Bar I go to and watch the games, today the bartender randomly said, “Big ol’ white guy like me, that’s gonna be my rap name.”

    I asked him, “what?”
    He said, “Dry Ice”.
    Immediately I said: “Yo, that’s tight. So, like your first single is gonna be, … What? “Colder than Ice” or maybe some disco/hip-hop cover revival of “Freeze Frame”.
    He dug that anyways.

    I got to Spillborghs’ head bad enough one game at AT & T Park that he had to turn around and look to see who was chirpin’ at him from the bleachers, and point to me w/ almost a smile. I think it was after he was in the outfield for like a 20-minute Giants hitting spree in the bottom of an inning. It was that rare 12-2 (I think) win in 2009.

  273. Spillborghs History…

    Famous Duane Kuiper call during the flight of his ball leaving the yard….

    “This is NOT good folks”…

  274. I’ve heard some Philly rumors that they very much want to face the Giants in the Post-Season to get revenge. But… alas… rumors.

  275. I held out as long as I could for Baggs post game notes, but to no avail. Work comes early in the AM, so off to bed I go. See ya all tomorrow.

  276. #352, @dsf.

    i hear ya.

    at 1st, i thought we’d gotten Astrubal C.(sp?); he’s a gem of a young player w/ loads of talent.

    i like OCab’s personality–sunny, optimistic.
    just don’t like his iron glove.
    really really really don’t like when he botches EZ pop ups, groundies.

    i think i counted the ratio of #botched/#completed. it was about 3/1.

    that is totally unacceptable for a ‘seasoned vet’.

    makes me believe he has a real physical problem, such as vision (depth perception problems)? maybe cataracts from decades bb in sunlight?

  277. @ VGF #328 & E-B #358:
    >“Thought: Will Phillies tank Atl series so they don’t have to face Giants?”

    Gotta agree with E-B completely on this. A big rivalry can only exist when both teams are competitive (IMHO anyways). And we got that going on with the Phillies these days.

    Whether Manuel taking Victorino over Sandoval or Utley and J. Sanchez. PHI fans will likely NEVER get over the “caught looking” of their best hitter Howard. Much like Beltran with the Mets fans, I think. Charlie in no way would think Vogelsong “deserved” an All-Star spot, I’m sure from his words on Lincecum & Cain.

    But, I totally agree w/ E-B. We ARE in their heads. They’d rather avoid us IF they could control it. I’ve shared my view on this before… If a team is used to posting a lot of offense, when that’s taken away (by great pitching)? It’s like they lose their identity… They got totally “lost”.

    —————–

    Yeah. They’ll “safely” say it is to help them prepare for the post-season (no doubt). And it does “play” as a justification, no arguing that. But it works doubly well for them. Maybe they get too much rest, historically it is known to work against teams… I’m just sayin’…

  278. #364, @dsf, “Maybe they get too much rest, historically it is known to work against teams… I’m just sayin’…”

    ITA. doing what it takes to lose a game requires some lazy footwork and/or glovework and/or bat swings and/or pitching. Sometimes those bad habits can stick longer than intended.

    I guess we will c.

    will look forward to more of your posts, @dsf. i’m runnin outta gas & will sign off for now. hope baggs can post his postgame notes. always a good read.

  279. @ E-B #363:
    >at 1st, i thought we’d gotten Astrubal C.(sp?); he’s a gem of a young player w/ loads of talent.

    Me too! Maybe you read my post a week or more ago, when I replayed the trade deadline night, how they said “Cabrera” on the radio and more info was coming… They said “Indians” and “we’re trying to get more info”…

    Then, “Orlando”. Oh no.
    —————–

    I really, really tried to get behind Tejada from pre-season on. Sure, he averages 25+ errors per year, and is only getting older. I wanted to HOPE that his veteran experience, he’d make us of with great technique and little ‘shortcuts’… Like you know how DeRo talked about cutting the angle rounding third base when people asked if he even touched the base?

    Then, I saw him playing. He comes across as arrogant and a total showboat. We’d just won the WS playing TEX. Then he comes out and starts “The Claw” on our dugout? WE HATE THAT. Not around these parts, not here. No. Guy was clueless. Just because he ‘claimed’ he invented it or whatever.

    Those pop-up slides to ball, the missing of tags on steal attempts…

    I digress. With O Cab, I don’t know if it’s as simple as older eyes or cataracts. I get that sense it might be possible with some players, but I’m not sure with him.

    You know how if you toss somebody a set of keys, most will catch them. A few, really smoothly. A few clumsily. A few drop them or can’t react fast enough? I think O Cab is just a guy that sometimes his motor skills don’t catch up to what he’s seeing, and is partly lazy in his form too.

    When those factors combine into a ‘storm’, a bad play results. If not so many factors ‘combine’ he’s alright. Fast runner on chopping/bouncer ‘an easy play’ can be “uh-oh” with him and not-much-arm. You see what I mean?

    The other night when I talked about Pill maybe not being much of an athlete and mentioned Pablo kicking a soccer ball or Tim doing handstands/back flips whatever… This is kinda what I relate it to also. O Cab, just puzzles me. But Tejada really UPSET me.

    ———-
    Still no post-game notes? huh. Big news scoop coming or something? Did Barry Lamar or Larry Ellison buy shares of the G-Men? Huh.

    ————-

    Oh BTW. I thought we had TWO activations on 8/31. Brett Pill was one (contract was purchased & called-up), can’t remember the other. I was thinking it might’ve been Hector Sanchez, but it seems a couple here thought he was a 9/1 call-up and I’ll defer to your memory, since I can’t recall. It might’ve been a DL player re-activated (maybe Pat Burrell)?

  280. @E-B

    Thanks for kind works. Get some sleep. Looking forward to chatting with you.

    @OMB

    Thank you for your imput. Talk to you soon too.

    @dsf

    Have funny trash talk story about Neon Dion. Will share later. Take care my friend.

    @PITA #357

    So many memories. Than you so very much. Made my night. Thanks for lifting my spirits too.

    Checking out for the night. If I missed an acknowledgement please forgive. Tired, tired, tired.

    Be well all.

    vgf

  281. Cheers y’all, everyone seems off for a long blink…

    Maybe I’ll listen to the KNBR midnite replay and catch up a bit.

    We got TWELVE!

    Eight Straight!

    WooHoo!

  282. To everybody. Checkout PITA link #357.

    I’m still laughing.

    OK, now I’m gone.

    vgf

  283. @ VGF #368:
    >Have funny trash talk story about Neon Dion. Will share later.

    I just wanna know if it involves you asking him if he has any of those “5-toed sandals or shoes” and how that works out for him? I’ll look forward to it.

  284. Hey all.

    I just watched a few of the highlight clips. WOW.

    Kinda reaffirms a few of my opinions:

    Crawford can hit breaking balls.
    Belt has off-the-charts hand-eye (or bat-to-eye) coordination.
    Let’s keep Panda being Panda.
    Hey Beltran: “There is no ‘ME’ in San Francisco.”
    That catch by Christian was N-I-C-E.

    Somehow, that error by Beltran wasn’t in the team highlights section. Huh. Go figure, right? Maybe I’ll check the COL MLB site too.

    So, Fontenot got HBP, and Huff got ‘drilled’ while on first base? Not even a warning to the Rocks? Nice job Joe West and crew. “Don’t Stop the Rock(s). The strike zone was an embarrassment to baseball.

    I *might* have a concern about what I saw in the highlight clips I watched. I’m gonna try to get to the cafe tomorrow to check it out better. Just something I *think* I saw. Maybe more later.

    Take care all. Cheers.

  285. Gotta love the Nate video. Not just serious appreciation for the cannon arm, but I also grin at the various runner expressions and body language when there is a Got Ya!

  286. @ JD4SF #373:
    >Gotta love the Nate video.

    Oh yeah! I’ve had the same video bookmarked for a long while already. It’s always a great watch, no matter how many times I’ve already seen it. Wish he were playing. Hope he can heal up well.

  287. Yeah, dsf, I enjoy watching Nate and will be happy to see him healed and playing again.

  288. dsf: Beltran didn’t make an error. The only error in the game for the Giants was by Fontenot–bad shovel to 2B to try to start a DP.

    What I and others were referring to was Wiggington’s double. In the MLB highlight it’s labeled “Wiggington’s RBI double,” and it was the Rox feed. See if you think Beltran was “conserving energy,” and if so, whether that’s such an awful thing given the lopsided score.

    Regarding the pitching rotation, Zito and Sanchez did cross my mind, especially Zito because he’s actually back already. None of these options make me happy for obvious historical parallels–do you go with the rook (see: 1993) or the often unreliable vet (WS game 7, 2002). Ugh. If we actually are in a spot where those last games matter, we may be looking at some juggling/short rest scenarios. For that matter, are we convinced that Vogelsong will bring it in a high-stakes game?

  289. VGF and DSF- Keep posting. I like your informative post and don’t usually reply because I’m more into reading the blog although I do respond to post sometimes. Thanks for your posts. I think many of us read the entire blog and don’t respond. Keep it up.

  290. Have not read all the comments. Did see ‘The Idiot’ chime in. I am not a Bochy hater. I think Sabean is o.k.

    Boy is it clear now the Giants would have been way better off – and much closer to first place – if Bochy had done a better job of handling Belt and Crawford. Sanchez still does not play enough. And, Sabean stubborn attitude on Pill likely cost the Giants as well.

  291. I agree with Scott. Unless a miracle happens, the Giants will fall slightly short of the postseason, and with historically great pitching, they should have cruised to the NL West title, even with the injuries to Posey and Freddy and all the others. It’s a ridiculously wasted opportunity.

    A series of bad decisions in July and August–trading for Cabrera, sending Belt and Crawford down after the trades, sticking stubbornly with Rowand, Cabrera, Huff, and Whiteside long after it was clear they were not going to be effective–led to too many losses and falling too far back.

    The fans and writers ought to call BS if the story at the end of this season is “bad luck” or “injuries.” The injuries maybe would have prevented the Giants from going very far in the playoffs. But they shouldn’t have kept them from getting there at all. There were enough options and moving parts that Bochy and Sabean clearly should have tried much sooner.

    I really feel like the Giants’ organization owes us all an apology and an acknowledgment of mistakes made and lessons learned. The entire pitching staff (well, maybe not J. Sanchez) and Pablo Sandoval should get apologies, too. They deserved better, and so did we.

  292. P.S.: Speaking of Sandoval, nothing against Vogelsong, but I thought and still think that Pablo should have won the Willie Mac Award. I understand the players and staff vote and that “inspiration” is a subjective concept, but really, who has been more of a catalyst all year than Sandoval–on offense, on defense, in the dugout, and in the clubhouse? And his weight loss/fitness story together with bouncing back from the broken hand and dragging himself out on the field injured in August–if that’s not inspiring, what is?

    I liked it better when long-time team leaders like Mike Krukow and J.T. Snow were winning it. These one-hit wonders make me a little sad when they come out for the ceremony each year. (It remains to be seen which category Vogelsong will be in.)

  293. @left #380,

    Agree and have said as much on this forum.

    @lefty #381,

    This one is a tough call. They are both so deserving in my mind. If you think about the road Song traveled and to make the All-star team, WOW!

    Same goes for Pablo, however. He is the epitome of inspriational, team play.

    How about co-winners?

  294. Call me crazy but if you slip Zito in on Wednesday against the Dodgers and put him on the shortest leash in baseball history, you’ll have Bumgardner, Cain and Lincecum against Arizona with Bumgardner and Cain on five days rest and Lincecum on normal rest. I’d roll the dice and do it.

  295. RE: Lefty

    Couldn’t disagree more. All-star game, BW made a national tv plea for Beltran to come play by the cove.

    Our brass pulled the trigger and got a guy who is raking as we had hoped. Kepp is a total success and should be a Giant for some time. O-cab, agree there, a blunder.

    Trades are always risks, but Bow-tie and co. tried their best to piece together something after catastrophe struck.
    Nobody would’ve guessed the farm hands would be this good and leading the charge.

    We’re still in this thing and you got up this morning to whine, you even eat breakfast yet? Losing Posey and Sanchez would make most teams wilt, we’re in this by a thread.

  296. Who knew that the whole time ot was Neukom putting too much pressure on the club house. His constant hovering and walking around asking the players how things were going that cause them to swallow quarters and sh*t dimes…… *lol*

    I find it interesting that this clubhouse seems to turn it around and soon as it becomes the underdawg again.

    They ALWAYS seems to want to fight from behind. There is no pucker factor.

    Remember last year we were playing catch-up all year, we finally got the lead and damn near spit the bit at the end. Only the Dirty-dirty sacked up and pushed us through both on the mound and with his stick.

    This year, we have that over achiever label, chip on your shoulder we’ll show you mentatlity. Go in to Philly and punk them, and then trade for the big bat. All the pundits start picking us to be the favorites, printing off the NLCS death match tickets with the Phils and BOOM! Straight to the tank.

    This clubhouse cannot front run. It needs to be counted out…. Please as fans, we have to keep on talking about how this year was wasted. How bad this club sucks and how we all know that four or five games is too much to make up. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not have any confidence in this ‘turn around’. Know deep down inside, that Bochy is just one game away from letting Torres, Cabrera and Huff pay out the string and leave us exactly where you thought you would be a week ago.

    Hoping the 49ers will find a quarterback that inspires the head coach to take a field goal off the board and play for punching it in the endzone and finishing off the game with 10:00 minutes left in the game; rather than being satified with a measley three points and hoping the opponent can’t find a way to comeback.

  297. we bring up the kids and start winning again..

    I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO

    too bad Sabochy loved the veterans all through July and August

    LOSERS

    go giants

  298. Giants face two lefties in the 3 game set against the Fodgers – key to series IMO will be who the Giants play at SS

    Stamos, Stamos, Stamos…..

  299. Stan

    I talked to management and they are in the process of installing another revolving door. One at the front of the wagon and one at the back.

    +++ They are installing 100’s of life rafts that will be droped on the last pitch for all those that are drowning in there tears that did not believe or say one nice thing about Bochy or Sabean or any of the Giants Veterans.

    GO GIANTS! 9 in a Row BABY! BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE! I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days.

  300. Chris Boyd

    Your wrong about the Giants and even more ignorant when it comes the 49ers.

    Alex Smith is the QB. stay tuned and watch.

    I can see bright, bright sun shiny days for Alex Smith and 49ers.

  301. SakUp

    Ha ha ha ha ha

    NOT!

    Too much Pablo, Kepp, and Beltran

    I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days.

  302. @Tito – oh, I hope your so right….Let’s Go Giants……..

    Stamos, Stamos, Stamos…….

  303. 3rdKing

    No I Tod you So, that you would come crawling back and wanting on the band wagon.

    I Told you so, you would walk out that door and come crawling back for more.

    I Told you So, Oh I told You So

    You would come begging at our door, I Told you So.

    I Told you So, Oh I Told you So!

    3rdKing you are no Randy Travis, But I Told you So!

  304. We still need a CF. Torres drew some walks, but the dude still cannot hit and Christian I’d go with until or if Ross comes back. So we shall see. And the matchups for Dodgers Series, D-Backs Series, and possibly big Rockies Series at home stands like this.

    Tue vs. LA Lincecum vs. Kershaw -Timmy is due for a win vs. him.
    Wed vs. LA Vogelsong vs. Eveland
    Thu vs. LA Bumgarner vs. Kuroda – Need to get Mad Bum a win to be over .500 with his record.

    Fri vs. ARI Cain vs. Collmenter
    Sat vs. ARI Surkamp or TBD vs. Saunders (we raked Saunders last time)
    Sun vs. ARI Lincecum vs. Kennedy (Battle of Aces)

    Mon vs. COL Vogelsong vs. Rockies
    Tue vs. COL Bumgarner vs. Rockies
    Wed vs. COL Cain vs. Rockies

    Lincecum eligible and ready for tiebreaker or Game 1 of playoff, etc!
    Only game that worries me is Surkamp vs. AZ, but Saunders is on the mound and we hit him well. And we got our bullpen. So have to hope to get 5 innings 1 run out of Surkamp and put bullpen in right away and grind it out.

  305. SakUp

    How long have you been around baseball Once a team is hitting like the Giants are its contagious and this team is on a roll right now. Nothing is going to slow it down. The way this team pitches and our bullpen if one should slip. No Its going to take Atlanta or Arizona to step it up and win this thing.

    Not Worried about the Giants winning out at all. may lose 1 OK And it will not be for lack of hitting. It will be to much faith in Cain or Lincecem. They have earned the shot to lose it all. The only thing that worries me.

    GO GIANTS!

  306. yeah I’ll take Christian over Torres right now, especially against a lefty on the mound – Torres has been brutal from the right side this year. Maybe they will both play again, and Belt will sit. Not what I would do, but we all know Bochy and his L-R matchups.

    Craw is our shortstop. That just shouldn’t even be a discussion, and it shouldn’t have been one for quite a while now. Seems like there’s about one guy on the planet that isn’t convinced, and he’s the one that makes out the lineup.

  307. Tito – I dont know your age, but in Baseball years….I would venture say longer than you. We will leave it there.

    I 100% agree with you, and that is more reason to have the best D on the field. Either way, we have no control……..

    Let’s Go Giants!!!

  308. You’re only as hot as your staring pitcher….

    Cy Kershaw goes Tuesday for the Codgers….

    Yes we have Timmy, but the season depends on a W…..

    I don’t want a repeat of Black Saturday, September 3, 2011 when the sky darkened and so many of us lost hope after Timmy lost to Kennedy 7-2….

    I’m hoping for WS Game 5 Timmy, or NLDS Game 1 Timmy……

    Time to Cowboy Up, Sack Up, Clutch Up, insert your favorite here……

    War Eagle Murph!

  309. Sorry. Been out of touch since Wed night. Did anything interesting happen this weekend? (jk)

  310. Do we get to bring Carl back on the blog if we go into this weekend just three or four out for a final “Broom or Shovel” Series ?!?!?!?

  311. I hated Lasorda out of the womb…. I am a more original DodgerH8ter…

  312. dan

    I did not studder

    Alex Smith is going to be a Great QB in this League PERIOD.

    He came from, a school that did not run a pro style offense that he succeeded in. So he had to learn how to QB all over again. He is an excellent athlete. The fact he had to learn from 7 different coordinators just simply BS nobody even superman would of succeeded in that mess of 7 coodinators. And having to learn the position at the NFL level. NOBODY!

    Alex has learned alot from those 7 a lot. And now he can read a field much better and the game has slowed down for him and he is able to use his atheletic abilities to succeed in this game and he has someone who believes in him in Harbaugh.

    Alex is going to make Harbaugh loook like a genuis and Harbaugh is going to make Alex look like an All World QB.

    Stay tuned These two are so meant for each other. good timing on both parties. To come together at this juncture in there careers.

    Alex is so ready to succeed. And Harbaugh is so ready to teach someone like Alex how to succeed. At this stage in his Career Alex understand more of what Harbaugh is talking about and visa versa Alex can comprehend more so Harbaugh can feed him more. There are things that Harbaugh would have to wait and see that Alex has all ready been thru and has learnt he can not do that and be successfull.Jimmy is opening up new doors for Alex and Alex is able to easily walk thru them. And see with a new understanding. And enjoy the game more with a new excitement.

    They have a good bond that is going to take them far.

  313. Seems appropriate for tomorrow…..

    Who is your least favorite Dodger?

    a) Kershaw
    b) Wills
    c) Gagne
    d) Garvey
    e) Reese
    f) Baker (I don’t care if we wore black and orange longer, the blue stains
    g) Hershiser
    h) Lopes
    i ) Cey
    j) Koufax
    k) Reuss
    l) Geurrero
    m) Ethier
    n) Robinson
    o) Piazza
    p) Snyder
    q) Hansen
    r) Campenella
    s) Sax
    t) Drysdale
    u) Kemp
    v) Karros
    w) Lo Duca
    x) Lasorda
    y) Russell
    z) ALL OF THE ABOVE….

  314. Smith will be no better than serviceable…… He’s turning into a game manger of the Trent Dilfer mold. Dilfer has ring, but aside from 10 great games in a Seahawks jersey with Holmgren was never something defenses every worried about.

    Just like Kordell Stewart, who had much more athletic skills than Alex, the OC marry-go-round has ruined him… You just cannot do that to a QB.

    He coulda been somebody, he coulda been a contenda……

    Now he might as well just call out for Stella.

  315. Lasorda kicked my dog and burned my grandma’s house down and I learned how to use the internet before you which is why you can’t get dodgerh8ter or any of it’s forms at any of the popular free email web sites. Try and registering dodgerh8ter.com. You can’t I own it. Not too mention I have been commenting on Giant blogs for aver 20 years with the handle DodgerH8ter! Please change your name. You won’t win a “Who has the bigger Giant diick contest against me. Will Clark bought me a frigging Jameson after game 5 of the WS in Texas. I didn’t see you there. But you do win in one category. You paid attention this weekend while I was in Big Sur free diving for abs.

  316. SakUp

    Thats where the casual fan gets lost in the D

    There eye tells them one thing.

    Like Cabrera has lost range and compared to Crawford if you put both at same spot on defense and said do not move tell ball is hit Crawford would probably get to more. But that is where it ends and no nobody sits still while a batter is up or a pitch is being delievered. So that would not be a fair evaluation of better defender.

    Bochy and Wotus have signals they are constently giving defenders maybe it is Bochy’s comfort level or view that Cabrera understands where he needs to be and tends to get a better lean towards ground balls that gives him a better overall range and gives Bochy better defense.

    Maybe Bochy and Wotus throw out a 100 signals and Cabera reacts accordingly on 98% of them and Crawford reacts 90% of the time accordingly. It may be something as simple as that. And it will bite you at the worst time so there comfort level with Cabrera is higher.

    I am just guessing here, but unless your in that dug out a 100% of the time. We have no clue on why Bochy prefers Cabrera. But you can believe its for a very good reason.

    GO GIANTS!

  317. @ Chris Boyd #408:
    >Who is your least favorite Dodger?

    I’ve looked through this list four times…

    Where’s Manny?
    IMHO, list ain’t complete wit’out no Manny being Manny, man.

  318. DodgerH8ter

    Nobody cares, How big a boner you have for Will Clark. Does not make you a bigger or better fan.

    Nice abaloney diving in big sur. Use to love camping on that cliff, waking up to abaloney steaks and fried eggs. And some John Wayne coffee.

    Very nice people camping and abaloney diving. We use to all end up around one fire playing scherades or telling dumb jokes or spooky tells. fun times.

    GO GIANTS! 9 in a row BABY!

  319. >Who is your least favorite Dodger?

    Brett Butler!

    Sorry. I h8t the fing guy!

  320. @ Chris Boyd #408:
    >Who is your least favorite Dodger?

    Surprised Gibson wasn’t on the list either.

    I’d say Ethier is my least favorite 2011 Fodger. Can’t stand that guy for some reason. He looks like the long lost oldest Jonas brother.

    Of all time though, it has to go to Lasorda for me. He represents everything we hate about the Fodgers.

  321. > Nobody cares, How big a boner you have for Will Clark. Does not make you a bigger or better fan.

    No it doesn’t. I just want the guy that keeps using dodgerh8ter to stop using it. Or if he does use it, please make your posts inane with poor grammar and spelling else people might confuse us. I’m the Dodgerh8ter that can’t spell and uses your when he means you’re. That other guy spells good.

  322. @ Tito – easy with the casual fan and the little lesson. I forgot more than you just wrote. I get the game…. the positioning of players, range, arm strength, baseball savvy etc, signs, situations, veteran presence, etc etc etc etc etc etc. So don’t try to Fan Up and act like you know more or less than many on this board…..trust me on that.

    Like you said, we are not in the dug out so we can have our opinions. For the record it has become obvious of late Bochy prefrs Crawford. O Cab only starts (2) in the last 8 games where vs. lefties.

    So, IMO as we race to the finish I believe Crawford brings more to the table on D more than whatever Match Up advantage Ocab brings on offense (0 Up Grade)

    at the end of the day….Let’s Go Giants!!!

  323. Reading this thread from start to finish is hilarious. Most complaining of the lineup and fear of loss, and then they put up 12 runs and 6 bombs… all is well.

    Kruk did say that Pill should be in there against Kershaw tomorrow. I think Belt is hot also, and should play (especially since he’s had success against the dodgers).

  324. I’ve always had this question in my head. Maybe some of you would care to chime in? I think it relevant to our current Giants situation, but I’ve always thought about it regarding playoff series.

    If you have to win, let’s say, THREE games of a five games series. Let’s use our current Giants as an example. Is there any logic to mis-matching our pitching rotation? If days’ rest is not any issue, would any of you ‘slide’ Lincecum into a different start day, and maybe have Surkamp face Kershaw instead? (Okay, okay. I know, you wouldn’t be using Surkamp in the playoffs. I get it, I get it. Just work with me here, please).

    It is a sort of ‘damage control’. You ‘hope’ to win with your #5 pitcher, but it is less certainty. And then with our offense it is maybe even less certain. Now, instead of possibly losing to Kershaw AND losing a second game with Surkamp…

    You could give yourself the best chance to win the most games. Maybe you hope for more luck on Surkamp vs. Kershaw. Maybe you just wish for the bats to wake up against a tough, tough pitcher. Whatever.

    ————–

    In 5-game playoff series, I’ve always believed the SECOND game is by far the most important. I know, everybody says the first game is… You want to start well, gain the advantage… yada yada.

    I can explain myself, but it isn’t really pertinent to our current Giants situation. Basically, they gotta win, no matter who or what team, or where.
    ——————
    @ Lefty #377:
    >Beltran didn’t make an error… Regarding the pitching rotation, Zito and Sanchez did cross my mind

    Thanks for the info, I’ll try checking it out…
    I only brought them up because, Bochy… Veterans… I would not be surprised if it came to it, that he’d allow Zito an ultimate redemption story (for not being in the post-season, etc).

    Just watch out if it were to be allowed. Can fans get behind him for 2012? Or… My goodness, the consequences of not pulling through due to Zito would be almost unimaginable… Maybe Bochy ousted, Zito DFA’ed…

  325. I want to believe the reason Bochy is playing Cabrerra a little bit still is to keep him sharp (I use the term loosely) since Crawford cannot be on a potential playoff roster.

  326. Tito, or Idiot. Here’s your answer:

    Bochy prefers to maximum drama on pop-ups. That’s why he play Cabrera at short. The defensive signal thing is great, if all other factors are equal. They are not.

    The team plays better with Crawford at short. He is a gamer…..wise beyond his years. Watch him in the dugout. Watch who is the first guy out to congratulate teammates.

    Bochy has ‘F’ed this one up. Plain and simple. I don’t care what revolving door one enter through. Some players have an “it” quality that gets those around them to perform better. Crawford has it.

  327. @ Gerbik – good point about the playoff roster, although Craw can be added if another shortstop goes down with injury. Maybe OCab needs to come down with some type of “tendinitis”.

  328. Good names I left off….

    Gibson, who came up as a Tiger (so it must be why I forgot him), but is more noticed for his one shining moment in Dodger Blue…. I hate to admit, I wasn’t baseball aware for Fisk in ’75, but even though I hated those SOBs that damn HR was the greatest I saw until Snow in the NLDS off Benitez in 2000. I was in the park for Jack’s even though it didn’t win the game……

    Manny is an Indian and a Red Sox to me first and I could never really hate him. He wasn’t much of a Giant Killer mind one Homerun off Romo like LoDuca or Reuss. I know the Blue forever stains your soul, YES THIS MEANS YOU FP “BANDWAGON” SANTANGELO, but his one year in Blue didn’t make me hate him like the rest…..

    Hell I grew up in the Land of Mordor, and learned part of the game from Vinny so I could name plenty of those less obscure from the 80’s before I ran away to escape the fatman with my Linguine….

    Can I get some hate for Kenny Landreaux or Tim Leary or Greg Brock or Mike Marshall?

  329. Hate is a strong word

    I do not hate any.

    I dislike

    Lasorda, Gagne, Garvey, Cey, Russel, Hershiser, Lopes, Sax, Reggie Smith,

    In that order.

    A lot of those names stem form the 80’s when the rivalry was more.

    When a manager was booted at the stick he had to walk all the way down the rightfield line to get to the exit. And Lasorda use to give it back to the fans and they let him have it. It was so funny and would get all going. That JA would bow and tip his cap.

  330. @tito #411,

    Put down the crack pipe and check yourself into rehab, NOW!

    @dsf #422,

    I’ve often had the same logical thought, but I don’t think it’s a healthy thing for the players involved. I mean, what are you saying to whoever you match up against the other team’s ace when you pull your ace for a “better” matchup?

    In the case of Tim vs Kershaw, this is the time to see Tim rise up and give his best. He’s obviously motivated due to failure his last three attempts and we know he is capable of shutting down the Dodgers when he’s on. I’m down with Tim vs Kershaw, in fact I can’t wait for tomorrow’s game!

    Go Giants, get it to 9-in-a-row!

  331. @ OBrothere #378:
    >VGF and DSF- Keep posting. I like your informative post and don’t usually reply because I’m more into reading

    Many thanks for the kind words.
    ———————

    @ Lefty #380:
    >The injuries maybe would have prevented the Giants from going very far in the playoffs. But they shouldn’t have kept them from getting there at all.

    Agree with you and PITA and and others on this. Injuries didn’t steal our chances. But what is even more of a shame, is we still have so many question marks for NEXT SEASON. Since the kids haven’t played much, how do we know if we have a CF or our future SS, or a LF anchor. Does a catcher with 40-ish MLB innings get the call over Stewart for #2 slot?

    It just might cost us TWO seasons. IF they are really, really bad at decision making and management. Which, it seems to me, is becoming more of a norm than anomaly (ya like that writing there? ha ha).
    ———–

    @ Steve Harmon #386:
    >@DSF, yes, Pill and Burrell were recalled on Aug. 31.

    Thanks for this info. So, H. Sanchez wouldn’t be playoff eligible. okee. alright.

  332. dsf says: If you have to win, let’s say, THREE games of a five games series. Let’s use our current Giants as an example. Is there any logic to mis-matching our pitching rotation?

    —Answer: No. The Giants in 2010 for example were not “built” for 162 nor the 1st Round….especially, but TWO 7 game series = they were.

    —If mismatching were significantly popular….someone would have done it by now….

    —Never save anyone…and always stick with the girl you brought to the dance…

  333. @ Gerbik

    “I want to believe the reason Bochy is playing Cabrerra a little bit still is to keep him sharp (I use the term loosely) since Crawford cannot be on a potential playoff roster.”

    While on the surface that’s true, Crawford could replace any field player on the Giants roster if they mysteriously were to require going to the 60 day DL between now and the end of the season. Say for something like a hamstring tear running to first base…..

  334. A few of you have commented on Keppinger. He has been close to useless for the Giants since being picked up. FanGraphs has his WAR at -0.1. In theory, that means that he has been worth .1 win less than a replacement player. A replacement player is basically a minor leaguer who could play in the majors in a pinch (Conor Gillaspie is a perfect example).
    However, he has been misused. I said at the time the Giants got him that he would be of some value in a 2B platoon with Fontenot. If he had been used strictly that way, he would have a small positive WAR. Since the other players that the Giants could have used in that capacity have negative WARs (Hall -0.6, Burriss -0.4, Tejada -0.1), that small positive would have been a reasonable gain.
    If the Giants fail to get a major league SS for next season or get one and let Crawford play in AAA, Keppinger could be of minor use as the fourth middle infielder (or even the third if FSanchez remains or becomes injured again).
    I hope the Giants can pick up a better utility mid-infielder, but I doubt that they will. They will probably blow their money on an over-the-hill starting shortstop, an over-the-hill starting center-fielder and an over-the-hill utility infielder (perhaps Cabrera whose WAR as a Giant has been -0.7, worse than any other Giant, even Huff at -0.6).

  335. Scott

    Glad you feel that way about Crawford, hopefully one of these days I will feel the same way.

    But what I can not do, With out being in that dug out on a daily basis. Is say that Crawford is better for this team today or tomorrow or in the pass. With out knowing every situation and instence and how that situation was dealt with.

    Bochy not only has the advantage of being there everyday and asking all the tough questions and getting all the answers from his players. But he has been a catcher and has played this game and knows a lot more then me or you even if he did not have the advantage of being there everyday.

    cheeessshhh!

  336. @ PITA #429:
    >@dsf #422, I’ve often had the same logical thought, but I don’t think it’s a healthy thing for the players involved. I mean, what are you saying to whoever you match up against the other team’s ace when you pull your ace for a “better” matchup?

    Okay, interesting. It seems rational to consider IMO, that’s all. I agree and disagree about the psyche of the players. They are all “used to” understanding their place on teams. When Nate/Ishi have been defensive replacements for example. Why Burrell comes up for a clutch pinch-hit AB ahead of Burriss or Ford.

    Why O Cab plays over Crawford…

    Oh wait, scratch that last one. File it under the ‘things I can’t ever really truly wrap my head around’ drawer. Like hundred-ton ships floating or hundred-ton planes flying. Or glass isn’t acutally a solid, it’s a plasma or whatever. Or how street cleaners used to always get to my car three minutes before me.

  337. FanGraphs has [Keppinger’s] WAR at -0.1.

    for me, that’s more an argument against the usefulness of WAR than it is an argument against Keppinger. I believe what my eyes tell me, and my eyes tell me that he has been a solid contributer, a consistent, quality AB, and a decent defender as a Giant.

  338. I really thought they would be hitting like this in aug. This has been such a freaky yr. They are finally playing up to their abilities. Hopefully it’s not too late. Go Giants!

  339. Gianthusker,

    WAR has a much more sophisticated meaning than you say. To whit,

    Tom Tango, who invented the concept, defines it as “the talent level for which you would pay the minimum salary on the open market, or for which you can obtain at minimal cost in a trade”

    It depends on a recognized real time equivalence of dollar value and performance at the time of calculation. It’s a BIT more complex to interpret than you suggest.

  340. SakUp

    Do you know that for a fact that he prefers Crawford or are you guessing?

    Again maybe he is playing Crawford cause Maybe he is being told to play him so he can be evaluated for next years plans. All sort of factors.

    But for you to say Crawford is playing cause Bochy thinks he is better at this time period is just speculation.

    Like I said earlier and I think Bochy and Sabean are saying it does not matter who plays short. They both are contributing equally right now.

    The only ones that need to be in there everyday are Pablo, Beltran , and Keppinger.

  341. chanellclemente, you are correct, but I was trying to keep it simple. Even your explication leaves a lot out, but I doubt that most fans here would even understand my simplification.
    Dinero, you have made more excellent posts in this forum than anybody else, but this isn’t one of them.
    Even if you were the world’s best scout, you couldn’t see everything that every player does on every play. For instance, an opposing player hits a grounder in the vicinity of Keppinger. Where were your “eyes” when the ball was hit? I’ll bet my ranch against your beer that you were watching the pitcher and the hitter, not the second baseman. So whether Keppinger makes the play or not, you don’t know how good of a jump he got. The most you could know is how well he finished the play–except to know that, you would have to watch all the other second basemen on every play to see if they would have done better or worse.
    I’ll take the objective statistic (imperfect as it may be) over the “eyes” of one non-objective fan.

  342. “. I know the Blue forever stains your soul, YES THIS MEANS YOU FP “BANDWAGON” SANTANGELO”

    I don’t know why commenters on Giants blogs dislike F.P. Santangelo so much. Actually I do, it’s the same reason they dislike Eric Byrnes, Ralph Barbieri, Marty Lurie, Andrew Baggerly, Ray Ratto, and Henry Schulman…it’s jealousy of people who get paid to talk and write about baseball.. Blog commenters believe their opinions are valuable because they are “real fans”. Online Giants fans are the most bitter and insecure fans in all of baseball, and that’s coming from someone who used to live in New England. It’s amazing how forgiving our sweet Lord is, bestowing upon us countless blessings, despite our incessant complaining.
    How can a “real Giants fan” dislike a former professional player and manager who says the greatest thrill of his career came last year, watching them win a World Series title?
    A real Giants fan loves life, loves God and people who root for different colors of laundry. If you’ve been paying attention, this season is every bit as fulfilling as last year. As another former Giant player turned Dodger once said, “Enjoy the game!”.

  343. War is a stupid stat made up by cheap owners to fool fans PERIOD

    end of argument.

  344. “If the Giants fail to get a major league SS for next season or get one and let Crawford play in AAA”

    Crawford IS a major league SS. It’s not just a coincident that the Giants turned their season around the first game he started. Even before Posey got hurt, they were in a slump, afterwards, they were in mourning. Crawford’s homerun in Milwaukee pulled them out of a death-spiral. When they sent him down, they went into another slump. When Cabrera was starting they were 8 1/2 games out with no chance of coming back. Then they start playing The Kid at SS, and guess what? They climb back into the race. There is a such thing as team chemistry. Brandon Crawford adds to it, he makes the other players better. The vets from last year like playing with him, mentoring him, feeding off his energy. The pitchers obviously prefer someone with range at that key position.

  345. Gianthusker,

    what I took exception to most with your Keppinger comment was the use of WAR to characterize a player who is by definition a platoon or replacement level athlete. Keppinger is by definition a player who’s WAR will hover around zero.

    Other than that, I would agree that Keppinger is inadequate (understatement) at SS, and barely adequate at 2B, defensively. But against the right pitcher, he is the appropriate choice, or has been, at the plate.

    I REALLY have high hopes that young Crawford has turned a corner with the bat. If he can hit .240, he can own the position.

  346. The Giants are on a roll. They are playing their best ball of the year. And it’s great that several of the “kids” are playing big roles in the revival. It’s a little sad, however, that Huff and Torres continue to struggle. Torres is not next year’s problem but Huff will be one of the highest paid position players on the Giants in 2012. What do they do with HIM?

  347. it was nice to see Crawford heat up a little with the bat, and good to see him make web gems on espn with that barehanded grab. I agree that if the kid can hover around .250 the job is his. he’s got some adjustments to make in his swing, but his approach looks solid. he’s got a good eye, and he seems to make solid contact, it just looks like he has a little too much swing.
    it’s great to see the bats heating up. I really think this team would have been unstoppable with even average offense this year. they are an absolutely amazing 53-9 this year when scoring 4 or more runs. any semblance of a decent offense, and they’d be staring down the phillies again.
    I really hope mgt. is committed to bringing in some offense this winter. with the staff as it is, their window is now.

  348. As to Crawford.

    He, at heart is a show off and a bit of a cocky prick, BUT, if your going to be the centerpiece of a MLB infield, you better be. I like the guy, he just needs to hit the baseball. Attitude mixed with skill never hurt any team. A lot of guys are going to be forced to a better level of performance, if Crawford sets the defeensive standard. If he hits .280+, he’s a perennial AS. If he hangs at .200, he’s your uncle who almost made it in the big leagues.

  349. Tito,

    I like Bochy. He has, however, totally screwed up when it comes to Crawford and Belt. You can throw out all the “he is closer to the situation” all you want. Way overrated. In fact, I contend Bochy is too close.

    Giants biggest weakness according to most folks going into August was lack of power. Well, only two Giants have more homeruns since August 1st than Belt – and Carlos Beltran is not one of them. Ross and Pablo have 7 and 11, respectively since August 1st. Belt is homering at a rate of one per 14 at bats since August 1st. Ross is at 1 per 20 and Pablo is 1 per 14. Sorry to rub it in, but Huff is at 1 per 47.

    Look, no one knows for sure how things would have gone if Bochy would had done the smart thing and told Crawford and Belt that only thing they needed to check on the line-up was where they were hitting in the order. But, I for one, say it’s highly likely we would be much closer to first place.

    That does not make me a bandwagon jumper. I was saying it in July. Bochy stuck with underperforming vets for too long, and Giant fans are paying the price!

    And, now that we know Sanchez can catch, I say he should have been getting starts behind the plate in August, as well.

    And, that Pill guy. The one you claimed was going to help. Well, I be to differ.

    The facts are the facts. You know, those things you prefer to ignore.

  350. I hope Atlanta continues channeling their inner collective Brooks Conrad. S.F. needs a Conrad-ian Choke at this point.

    Too bad we don’t have any head-head games with ATL who is closer to being chased down.

    Go Pirates!
    Go Phillies!
    Go Marlins!

  351. Sorry for the re-post. Needed to correct the typos.

    Tito,

    I like Bochy. He has, however, totally screwed up when it comes to Crawford and Belt. You can throw out all the “he is closer to the situation” all you want. Way overrated. In fact, I contend Bochy is too close.

    Giants biggest weakness according to most folks going into August was lack of power. Well, only two Giants have more homeruns since August 1st than Belt – and Carlos Beltran is not one of them. Ross and Pablo have 7 and 11, respectively since August 1st. Belt is homering at a rate of one per 14 at bats since August 1st. Ross is at 1 per 20 and Pablo is 1 per 14. Sorry to rub it in, but Huff is at 1 per 47.

    Look, no one knows for sure how things would have gone if Bochy would had done the smart thing and told Crawford and Belt that only thing they needed to check on the line-up was where they were hitting in the order. But, I for one, say it’s highly likely we would be much closer to first place.

    That does not make me a bandwagon jumper. I was saying it in July. Bochy stuck with underperforming vets for too long, and Giant fans are paying the price!

    And, now that we know Sanchez can catch, I say he should have been getting starts behind the plate in August, as well.

    And, that Pill guy. The one you claimed was not going to help. Well, I beg to differ.

    The facts are the facts. You know, those things you prefer to ignore

  352. S.F. must finish 8-1 to probably chase down AZ and almost assuredly chase down ATL. Simply have to, have to, MUST beat Kershaw and sweep those 3 games in AZ.

    Cards are like a thorn right now. Go get ’em tonight Halladay. Move the Cards off the playoff road like tire tread.

  353. Vegas Giants Fan says: September 19th, 2011 at 12:20 am 368..To everybody. Checkout PITA link #357. I’m still laughing.OK, now I’m gone.vgf

    —FYI VGF and others….when ya’ll reference a poster at his number (357) and then once you hit “submit” that reference is no longer accurated because it gets ‘bumped’ each time…

    —Only thing accurate is the time of day the person – posted…

  354. dsf says: September 19th, 2011 at 2:17 am 371..Hey all.

    —Beltran: There was no error…

    —Huff: There is no such ‘warning’ available for an umpires crew to warn…it was a balk call and the Rox P continued to throw to first base which was unoccupied by his first baseman and he ended up hitting (or butting) Huff… You can’t EVEN consider a warning there…there is no rule book that covers it. OBR is too complicated as it is for which to assume he was “aiming” at him right there…

  355. @ clutch,

    That does happen when several posts hit the blog at the same time, but in this case #357 is still the right number. I suppose it would be best for all to use time of post rather than post number though.

  356. JD4SF says: September 19th, 2011 at 2:23 am 372..Gotta love the Nate video. Not just serious appreciation for the cannon arm, but I also grin at the various runner expressions and body language when there is a Got Ya!

    —Agreed…right out of the gate I smiled. As Tulo is getting back to first, Ishikawa is retrieving Nates throw and tagging first.

    —If you watch, Tulo gets up and says to his first base coach: “Am I Out”……

    🙂

  357. Giant,

    I scanned that AJC article. Venters and Kimbrel have had an incredible number of outings. Wish they had been that wasted when we were last in Atlanta.

  358. JD4SF says: September 19th, 2011 at 2:44 am 374..I hadn’t seen this before!Switch Hitter vs Switch Pitcher

    —That ONE episode caused (the NCAA and) MLB to finally come up with a set rule:

    — Rule 8.01 (f) states that a pitcher must indicate visually to the umpire-in-chief, the batter and any runners the hand with which he intends to pitch, which may be done by wearing his glove on the other hand while touching the pitcher’s plate.

    —The pitcher is not permitted to pitch with the other hand until the batter is retired, the batter becomes a runner, the inning ends, the batter is substituted for by a pinch-hitter or the pitcher incurs an injury.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100330&content_id=8995670&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

  359. Scott

    The fact you clamor Belt then close with And that Pill guy.

    Where do you play him if you are playing Belt at first all year.

    So now we have no Pill at all.

    Belt is striking out 33% of his at bats and is hitting .216 He has not grabed and ceased the opportunity. Yes he is capable of running into a bad pitch and taking advantage of it. So he is good for piling on. Giants have a hard time beating good pitching. Not bad pitching.

    Under performing Vets you mean Cody Ross who now everybody is saying wow! we are going to miss him with his injury. LOL!

    GO GIANTS! BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE!

  360. @ channelclemente #433:
    >new avatar/handle; Norm the Anomaly

    I like! I like! LOL.
    —————
    @ Giant PITA #451:
    >Braves fans are gripping!

    Oh, that’s tremendous. A pretty fiercely stated comment, but good for us in Giantsland. Thanks for sharing this.
    ————–
    @ ClutchUp #455:
    > FYI VGF and others….when ya’ll reference a poster at his number

    I dunno. You’ve mentioned this before. It works fine on my puter. Would ONLY be inaccurate IF a moderator were to delete a comment or fifteen (trolls). Even re-checking the reference #357 you bring up.

    BTW, that link looks hilarious. But my wi-fi stutters and freezes too much to watch it all.
    ————–

    The more I look at my projected line-ups for Giants 2012, the more I think the FO/Bochy/Sabean might used Burriss as our UT guy. He’s out of options, right? He hits just enough to be a “possible”. He’s a switch-hitter, and some speed. And CHEAP. We could very well have no lefties off the bench as I’m seeing things.

    Oh, as for what to do with Huff? (Woody #447 & others). My feeling is he SHOULD be the bench guy to start 2012. He has enough power to make a pitcher wonder if he can run into one. But his 2011 (and overall career) performance isn’t enough to merit the starting role IMHO.

    Not if Pill is around to platoon. Maybe Belt platoons a bit there too. When I look at a “horizon” that extends beyond just 2012… I’ll talk about this in my next post.

  361. @ CB…1028am Only game that worries me is Surkamp vs. AZ, but Saunders is on the mound and we hit him well. And we got our bullpen. So have to hope to get 5 innings 1 run out of Surkamp and put bullpen in right away and grind it out.

    —Bochy is contemplating or has made up his mind that Surkamp may be skippe for the Snakes Series…

  362. TitoMac says: September 19th, 2011 at 9:50 am 388..StanI talked to management and they are in the process of installing another revolving door. One at the front of the wagon and one at the back.

    —-Tito “talked with management”….

    HaHa…
    🙂

  363. Cards must lose tonight to Halladay. After this game, they have the softest remaining schedule of all teams in play off contention. They actually worry me more thant he Braves in regard to the WC.

    Don’t assume this means I’m giving up all hope of catching the Snakes, but I’m just looking for any and all routes to the post season.

  364. dsf,

    I think Bochy’s 2012 ‘Huff’ strategy will be apparent from his past treatment of veteran players. Unless ST dictates otherwise, Huff will start out the season at 1B with, say Pill, his competition. They’ll platoon about 80/20 Huff while Bochy lets Pill get his feet under himself. It’ll be 60/40 by the AS break unless Huff is really hot or on the otherside tails off, then it’ll go up or down 10-15% depending. Then, if Pill is carrying his weight, he’ll be 70/30 fulltime by the end of August, situational hitting issues having an impact. Huff’s vet status and $12MM driving the issues.

    There will plenty to complain about, and Huff detractors will not loose their favorite punching bag, but Bochy will transition Huff’s replacement, if it’s Pill, that way. A way more interesting situation is going to exist at 1B if Posey can’t catch.

  365. Giant,

    on paper your right about the Cards schedule. But given the way the Mets played the Braves and the joy in mudville (chicago) if they could ruin the Cards season, it could be a tough finish for them.

  366. From GiantPITA

    “Here’s what I was thinking with the pitching the rest of the way:

    9/20 LA: Tim
    9/21 LA: Song
    9/22 LA: Surkamp
    9/23 AZ: Madbum
    9/24 AZ: Cain
    9/25 AZ: Tim
    9/26 COL: Song
    9/27 COL: Surkamp
    9/28 COL: Madbum ”

    If this isn’t done…. Gawd help Bochy…..

    it’s PURFECT.

    And I get Cain for a playoff or Game 1 with Timmy for Game 2

  367. @ Chris Boyd says: September 19th, 2011 at 10:47 am 407..Seems appropriate for tomorrow…..Who is your least favorite Dodger?

    —Never hated on players. Just hated their successes against us. I read what Walter O’malley had accomplished in Vero Beach with his Dodger-Way Academy’s etc in “developing” skill sets and was in awe….

    —My emotion was sadness and sorrow as our teams of Stretch-Cha-Cha-Mays-Perry and Marichal and company lost to Koufax-Drysdale-Davis-Davis.

    —Thats why the 3 game playoff in 1962 was SO special. Can still “hear” Billy Pierce winning games and can still see MAYS throwing (OMG) the last out INTO the stands… (Keep the ball Willie)

    —I do remember smiling at our groundscrew OVER watering first base for Maury Wills 🙂

    —Garvey was mock answer to trivia question once: Who won the Breeders Cup? Many Horses Names later..Answer: Steve Garvey.

    —So Chris Boyd: I’ll go with Casey Blake for mocking Wilson. (Was he on YOUR list?)

    —Here ya go CB:
    http://articles.sfgate.com/1997-09-17/news/28575165_1

  368. Food for thought …

    There are posters who keep trying to rewrite history, claiming if player X was gone, player Y was brought up, Z was done differently, etc., the Giants would would be in a better position right now.

    While I don’t necessarily agree/disagree with some of the “if only” opinions, I do think the *other* side of the history rewrite should also be considered in this speculation. (And yes, any history rewrite plugging in the person’s favorite “if only” is sheer speculation.)

    Most of the history rewrite is related to the rookies. What if …
    * the favorite rookie is brought up when the team is in a slump, and instead of sparking the team that rookie also falls into the team slump?
    * the veteran player is gone, replaced by the rookie, and that rookie has a meltdown under so much pressure?
    * the epidemic of injuries didn’t happen and the player juggling wasn’t so extreme … would it have still made sense to bring that favorite rookie up?

    We can’t rewrite history with any guarantees that the outcome would be better or worse. The glowing history rewrites need to take into consideration that the proposed “solution” may have also been unsuccessful.

    You can learn from history, but you can get mired in speculative history rewrites. I prefer to take the management approach of starting where we are now, and moving forward one game at a time … making adjustments as needed within that game. But the game strategy also includes a flexible short and long term plan.

  369. Tito,

    Screw the strikeouts. Yes, Belt strikes out. But, he also takes a walk. We can’t know for sure, but I am willing to bet his strikeout rate is down if he isn’t jerked around by Bochy.

    Belt plays left field, every day. Against righthanders and lefthanders.

    As for Pill, if he hits like this he plays first base. Huff earns his at bats, or he stays on the bench.

    Yes, I know it’s a tough step to take, benching a guy like Huff. You can argue Bochy can’t realistically do it. I get it.

    My argument is the Giants would be closer to first place if:
    1) Bochy penciled in Belt and Crawford every day.
    2) Pill was called up sooner and given starts at first base.
    3) Sanchez got more starts behind the plate.

    Bochy and Righetti manage the pitching staff wonderfully. Sabean is a master at trading minor league pitchers at the height of their value (we will see on Wheeler and Liriano was an exception). When it comes to handling young position talent both Bochy and Sabean are without talent.

  370. Somebody had asked about Wilson earlier. Not sure who.

    What I seen was him throwing a variety of pitches and keeping the ball down. pitching. He did not have his usual velocity on the fastball and slider. fastball about 92 slider which he was not throwing much about 87mph He was throwing a curve which he has not done much of in the past.He was down about 5 mph in velocity. But like I said he had a good inning pitching and keeping the ball down.

    You would think a curve would have more stress on the elbow then the slider not the case for Wilson.

    Sounds like the stress he is suffereing from in his elbow is directly related to the slider.

    Hopefully it is just a mechanic thing. And he is going to be all right.

    The slider is his out pitch or swing and miss pitch.

  371. Was CB – Now DodgerH8ter – The original DodgerH8ter since 1992 says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 10:32 am 401..Sorry. Been out of touch since Wed night. Did anything interesting happen this weekend? (jk)

    —Get a Gravatar of Lasorda with a SLASH line through him…

  372. With Dinero’s comment about ‘awards’, it ’tis the season. Given all the odd ways players are assessed and with guys like Verlander contending for the AL MVP, a list of all the abbreviations and what they mean might be helpful for those interested or crazy enough to follow the arguments going on everywhere on how to evaluate players who will be considered for those awards. So welcome to arcanotopia;

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/statpages/glossary/

  373. ClutchUp says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
    461..
    JD4SF says: September 19th, 2011 at 2:44 am 374..I hadn’t seen this before!Switch Hitter vs Switch Pitcher

    —That ONE episode caused (the NCAA and) MLB to finally come up with a set rule:
    =======

    I was aware of the rule. Somehow I missed the video of the incident that generated the rule. That situation had to give everyone involved – particularly the umps – some ulcers and grey hair having no established rule to draw the line.

  374. I see our OPTIMAL solution as getting a solid hitting LF and SS/lead-off this off-season. The more I think about CF, the more I wouldn’t entrust a 1-2 year contract to any FA- even Crisp.

    Just think with me here. If we can get Crisp for one-year, maybe. But I think payroll has its limits, and I’d probably say the money is better spent on re-signing Affeldt or getting a nice UT guy (one can argue Kepp is or isn’t THAT guy).

    But a 2-year deal for Coco Crisp? We can easily run into the same problem we have this year and next concerning Huff and his 2-year dealio. We leave no ‘real’ room for Brown if he is ready for a call-up any time in 2012, Crisp would hinder that. And then, we’re sitting on another issue (again) starting 2013.

    I see a big problem with Brett Pill. There’s simply no room for him. He isn’t a second-baseman. We got a log jam at 1B already. Huff, then Belt, then maybe Posey by 2013 or 2014 (Tommy Joseph as catcher?).

    Even if Belt starts in LF. Pill has to platoon at 1B with Huff. Don’t see that working too well for Pill as long as Bochy manages, ya know? What if Chris Dominguez keeps performing and needs a tryout on the Big Team? Dominguez, Pill, Belt, Huff, Posey, Sandoval… Oh geez.

    Five bench players, as Bochy likes to carry 12 pitchers. Four spots after a 2nd catcher is considered. To carry a “first-base ONLY” position player on a short bench would be tough IMO. You need a 4th OF, a UT, an infielder, and MAYBE a bat. Probably another mid-infielder or CF type to cover the bench depth. Especially IF you consider a Freddy Contingency Plan (FCP) or Coco Crisp Injury (CCI).
    ————

    To continue, I WANT Crawford to be our guy. But I see the SS position as the ONE and ONLY spot we could actually upgrade this off-season and remain in our long-term future plans. It’s too valuable IMO that we field the BEST possible team starting 2012, to hang on Crawford because we’re ‘fans’.

    It’s like “the easiest ‘tough’ decision” in my mind. Get that Anaheim SS with the red Humvee. He starts as lead-off in 2012. Brown comes up, Aybar is our #2 hitter after F. Sanchez is off the books in 2013. Perfect top of the order IMHO.

    Assuming Schierholtz plays RF. I think he should. Our CF goes to Brown by mid-2012 or 2013 unless something DRASTICALLY changes those plans. By 2013, Huff is off the books. Do we carry a platoon of Belt/Pill at 1B? Not if Belt hits well. What if Pill hits well? He’d have to hit well enough to shove Belt AND Posey out of our future plans. Huh, doubtful on THAT IMHO.
    ————-

    I’d be cool if we could eat $6.5M on Huff and trade him ANYWHERE. But, he has enough ‘value’ that I wouldn’t “eat” his full $10M and leave him off the roster completely. He’d be a very expensive bench guy if I had my way. If he got hot? Sure, he’d start a week straight, maybe. Otherwise, he’d have 120 AB’s maybe in 2012.

  375. Giants are:

    5-2 vs STL
    1-6 vs ATL
    9-6 vs AZ

    Tiebreakers look at head to head match ups first.

  376. Dinero says: September 19th, 2011 at 11:49 am 437..“FanGraphs has [Keppinger’s] WAR at -0.1.”for me, that’s more an argument against the usefulness of WAR than it is an argument against Keppinger. I believe what my eyes tell me, and my eyes tell me that he has been a solid contributer, a consistent, quality AB, and a decent defender as a Giant.

    —Thank you. I feel the same way. Graphs are grapsh. Baseball is played on the field of play between the white lines.

    —Kepp is a journey ball player that was a worthwhile acquisition. HE has major flaws but KUDOS to him that he PLANS HIS WORK and Works his Plan. Sometimes he makes the easiest of outs…sometimes he seems like a professional hitter. He hits the ball back up the middle as good as anyone, however he DOES GUESS, just way LESS than Huff

    🙂

  377. GiantHusker says: September 19th, 2011 at 11:39 am 432..A few of you have commented on Keppinger. He has been close to useless for the Giants since being picked up.

    —Okay, how about this. I have/had a problem with the choice of the word “useless”. Very few players that reach professional baseball should be referred to as usesless, regardless of the frame of reference…

  378. Scott & JD4SF

    another thing why we love Baseball so much. We can see now. Things all so clear. What should of been done. And what would of worked in a pass situation. cause we now know the end result.

    Baseball is a game of percentages and you play the best percentages and sometimes your going to be on the wrong end of those percentages. especially in a game where success 30% of the time is good while hitting.

    Thats why managers get fired.

    But while we are still alive and kicking, in this years race. We have to trust what the manager is doing cause he is the one that has all the facts in front of him. He is the one comunicating to the players and they are the ones communicating back. Cabrera could be like 7-40 VS a pitcher and out of line up but he could go to Bochy and say yeah skip I am 7-40 but I have made an adjustment and I was 2-30 but I am 5-10 my last 10 at bats VS said pitcher. And Bochy could pencil him right back in.

  379. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 12:27 pm 414..Knight,
    give me FP over Urban any day of the week.

    Clemmente:
    —Give me FP over Byrnes any day, second, week, month, season. FP called in around Sept 10th the day before 9/11 and FP was explaining the tenseness of being in WashDC and Byrnes was on some TOPIC around here whereby Byrnes was YELLING into his mic.

    —FP did not give ground, and Byrnes could not handle it, so Byrnes terminated the call.

    —I KNOW Byrnes from his Alpine LL Baseball days, St Francis High, UCLA, Dutch Goose in Menlo Park…. I can still see him whining to the Home Plate Umpire about something as he was trying to score (instead of stepping on home plate)….and viewing the catcher walking over to him and tagging him out….

    —The kindest I can do right now is say that Eric is a Caricature of what he considers himself to be. His show is unlistenable with all its “rejoins” and “filler music”….

    —Ray Woodson was deemed boring by Lee Hammer, but I would rather listen to Woodson than “look at me” – “I am doing a Triathalon” Byrnes.

  380. could someone please explain to me how WAR works?…

    here’s what i know…WAR, Wins Above Replacement=wins above or below what a minor leaguer or waiver wire replacement that would cost the league minimum would be worth.

    what i don’t understand… what or where are the stats you are actually comparing. because to me, and i suppose this is where i get confused but, you have to have actual stats to compare, otherwise it’s like saying ” you can get more mileage from “some” gas, then you can get from a gallon of gas. anyone?

  381. DSF,

    Too many good people is a wonderful problem to have…

    If both Belt and Pill pan out, you trade Pill…. he’s 4 years older. And you get a nice 2 or 3 year arb eligible arm or some bullpen help or some prospects…..

    Don’t worry about the log jam. I’ll take one everytime…..

  382. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 1:10 pm 457..Clutchup,
    if there is one, you win the prize for most arcane post of the day. Well Done! I’m still going , huh. ha ha

    —You lost me….at arcane?

  383. Agree about Byrnes, I went from listening to Sports Phone every night on my drive home to maybe once a month since he took over.

  384. clutch

    agree with you on byrnes, and most on KNBR…i’d rather see them mix and match the hosts, byrnes 1 week, ray another, slip in a guest host like papa once or twice a month, just mix it up, same people same time, day after day…ooops, i guess i just descibed my life…lol, but really, i’d find it refreshing to wake up to tom some morning, his tirades on shower soap might carry more interest. or ralph and bob going at it…

  385. @ Chris Boyd, re “Least Favorite Dodger”…do I only get one vote? We should at the very least get a vote for manager (Lasorda) and another for a player. Actually we all should get a vote for a player in each decade, beause it’s tough to narrow down to one guy! So, without further ado…

    Lasorda

    Willie Davis (’60s)

    Ron Cey (’70s: “of course we’re better than these guys. We beat them all through the minors, why not here”)

    Steve Sax/Mike Marshall/Greg Brock (’80s). Sorry, can’t pick just one.

    Mike Piazza (’90s)

    Andre Eithier (’00s) Actually, “I REALLY HATE that guy Kemp…wish he was on my team!”

  386. Clutch,

    interpreting a baseball rule is by definition arcane. I admire you for making sense of it. I repeated it out loud, and it reminded me of diving instructions on a Uboat, figuratively speaking.

  387. I have a thought that I should probably be visiting a church for and seeking penance. What would Uncle Bud do if…

    We start Runzler against AZ for game #1. He beans Upton on the hands, and maybe Goldschmidt in the ribs before getting tossed. We put in J. Sanchez and he gets Roberts on the shoulder. Then, Zito hits Kennedy.

    We get 10 game suspensions all around. Maybe Bochy gets it as well. So?

    Look. I do not condone hurting players, even opposing teams’ players. I want the games to ‘play out’. I am just asking as a hypothetical. I am SERIOUS. Just hypothetically. Or historically. Has any team/manager ever really, REALLY done something…
    ——————-

    @ ClutchUp #457:
    Thanks for clarifyiing about Beltran’s play. And yeah, just a weird “non-rule” about beaning a runner on 1B to save a pitcher from a balk.
    ————

    @ channelclemente #168:
    >re: I think Bochy’s 2012 ‘Huff’ strategy

    I think all you say here holds a lot of merit. But I also see a manager who gave Huff nearly 600 (?) AB’s this year while Huff slumped all season. So, you may be more favorable in your opinion of Pill’s playing time or chances than I would hold to. YMMV.
    ——————

    @ JD4SF #475:
    >re: We can’t rewrite history with any guarantees that the outcome would be better or worse.

    This is very well stated. I often share your views when reading posts here. We DON’T KNOW. Yes, each of us could agree it might’ve given a ‘better chance to win’… But there is no knowing the unknown (oh! there I go again! lol).
    ————-

    One of my pet peeves is using “absolutes”. Like saying “Huff “ALWAYS” rolls over and pulls ground balls to first.” Simply not true, there cannot be an argument made that this is a “valid” statement. O Cab doesn’t drop “EVERY” pop-up. Torres isn’t an “automatic out”.

    ———–

    I think 2012, we need to reduce the number of question marks. Will Belt perform well? We can all hope. Schierholtz? Same. Crawford? Again, same. Even adding a solid lead-off hitter, I still see four question marks and a pitcher as 5 potential question marks in a 9-player line-up.

    Belt/Pill
    Huff
    Schierholtz
    Crawford
    Pitcher

    If you add ONE bat (and, again you already have a lead-off hitter included)… who can hit 5th.

    Belt/Pill at 6th and maybe Schierholtz as 7th look really deep IMHO. No more of the “potential” ‘weak innings’ with a 6/7/8/9 spots up. IMO, it totally shifts from ‘weak’ to ‘deep’ with one more bat at the 5-spot.

    Sure, Belt/Pill/Huff could earn that role. I’ve no doubt they COULD. But to start off with a solid #5? Can you imagine if Belt/Pill/Huff BECOME that hitter and are #6 or #7 in the order? OMG. Can you say 90+ RBI’s per season? Then, methinks, Schierholtz would get a higher avg and slugging as #7 or #8 by pressuring pitchers in more tough situations.

    The dynamic shifts so greatly, by locking up a solid #5 bat IMHO.

    For our #8 hitter, I would then have no problem qith… We could have Crawford at SS (if our lead-off is a LF maybe?). Or we can place-hold in CF with Christian until Brown is up (if our lead-off is a SS maybe?).

  388. Clutch,

    I actually like Santangelo. His take on Ross last year was a lone voice, and he was laughed at, until Ross met Halliday. Then FP sounded like a profit and was spot on. Washington was lucky to get him, we have Radnich, Urban, Bruce, shall I go on?

  389. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 2:25 pm 495..Clutch, interpreting a baseball rule is by definition arcane. I admire you for making sense of it. I repeated it out loud, and it reminded me of diving instructions on a Uboat, figuratively speaking.

    —Thanks for helping out this stagnant mind. JD4SF had posted her video regarding the SwitchHitter facing a SwitchPitcher and I remember this vividly in on our College Baseball Team. Once I attended the Official Rules of Baseball Clinic OBR locally in the Bay Area and tose MLB officials gave us the actual rule that went with JD4SF’s post…

    —Thankfully it was NOT my interpretation but the actual rule…

  390. I didn’t think we needed a manager category

    I mean Alston, Lasorda, Russell, Tracy, Torre, Mattingly, Davey Johnson….. did I miss someone in here?

    I mean I dislike Davey Johnson, but he doesn’t hold a candle to Terrible Tommy…..

  391. Clutch,

    you are intrepid. By the way, it’s U-505 in the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. If your ever there and can read a little German, take the tour and see what I meant.

  392. +1 on Santangelo. I liked Byrnes until he got his own show, and like said here above, it is unlistenable due to the music and yelling whining. I would listen to FP after EVERY game last year, and I have listened to nothing after the post game show if it involves Byrnes. Sad actually. Oh and Lee Hammer is correct that Rod Woodson is boring… Get us a new man Hammer!

    Tito #146. Did you take your meds because that is actually a good post.

  393. @ Chris Boyd #490:>
    If both Belt and Pill pan out, you trade Pill…. he’s 4 years older. And you get a nice 2 or 3 year arb eligible arm or some bullpen help or some prospects…..

    Nice point, well taken. EXCELLENT point, really. Sure. I’ve been wondering who fills our rotation after 2012? Let’s still ‘assume’ we can retain Lincecum and Cain and Bumgarner isn’t going anywhere.

    Does Vogelsong get a 3-year deal and/or does he perform well for 3-years if he gets that contract? Do the Giants consider eating Zito’s last year at $20M + $7M buyout?

    Will Fitzgerald be ready? Or Westcott? Heston? Gloor? Marte? Verdugo? We’ll likely need two starting arms by 2013 or 2014. Trades this off-season could be a key part of that future road map IMO. (as you mention Chris).

    Let’s say these prospects really earn their spots:
    CF Brown
    2B Panik
    C H. Sanchez/Joseph/Susac

    We got only a couple concerns for a 5-year plan. SS, LF. I think 1B we’ll fill just fine.

    We’ll need 2 starting pitchers. We’ll need a couple/few bullpen arms. Dick Tidrow is “The Ninja”, right. I entrust he can help us get those arms developed. But are they already in our system or do we need a little ‘push’ from a trade to help get them in our farm?

    I realize we might have those arms. I’m not gonna list all the prospects. I know Hembree, Osiris, Matos are posting good numbers. Brett Bochy too… Guys like Correa, Lively, and Bowlin might deserve some attention…

    ————-

    We have the potential to put a REALLY NICE trade package together this off-season. I’ll be interested to see how it all shakes down.

  394. r-o-b-e-r-t

    Its like going out and buying a pair of shoes. Or an auto mobile.

    They will both get you from point A to point B. So they are just as usefull. But you are paying way more for a Cadillac as oppose to a Volkwagon. Or better yet a Ferrari.

    Now put them all in a race which one do you want. Again they will all get you from point A to point B.

    Now put rules on the race you can only go 55mph and you have to stop at all lights and wait till they turn green. The more rules you put in the Volkswagon looks better and better doesn’t it.

    Now if I am an owner why do I want you to watch a Ferrari race when you can watch a Volkswagon race and be just as entertained.

    GO GIANTS!

  395. @ Everone

    I would like to say thanks to all who have expresses their encouragement to me to “hang in there”. Means lots.

    Secondly, I would like to make a proposal.

    It’s hard to acknoledge everybody’s great post’s. They’re just to many and it would be too time consuming.

    So here’s my proposal. (And I’ll use myself as example)

    If you liked something I wrote but don’t have the time to respond you would do this.

    @VGF # (?) Whatever number it happens to be.

    Simply type in +. That’s it.

    That means you’ve read the person’s post and you enjoyed it. Takes a few seconds. Let’s writer know he/she’s not talking into the wind.

    I do not, however, advocate typing in – symbol. Three reasons.

    1. Trying to keep this upbeat.

    2. If you disagree with someone’s post you should give them the courtesy of explaining to them why.

    3. Make’s trolls job even easier. Simply have to type ( – ) to everyones post. We can’t get rid of them, why make their job easier.

    Well, that’s my 2 cents for today. Have to get back to catching up on previous posts plus working on a coupl of things.

    Thanks for your time.

    vgf

  396. @chris boyd @ 2:05 (see clutch I did it),

    I agree trading Pill would be the best move to aleviate the log jam dsf described. He’s older and his value is at an all time high.

  397. Can any of you great baseball historians tell me if a team has ever had a ‘handshake agreement’ like: we’ll sign your FA to a 2-year deal, and you can re-sign him on the 3rd year?

    I’m thinking NYY. We get Swisher for LF, they get their draft picks for him leaving as a FA. They definitely will need youth to help replace Rivera, Jeter, Posada and others SOON. They sign Beltran to a 4-year deal. NYY: Beltran plays RF for 2 years and DH for 2 years.

    After 2013, our contract is up with Swisher he goes back to RF for NYY. Belt moves to LF. Posey moves to 1B. Joseph/Susac starts at C. Maybe H. Sanchez backs up at C.

    I’m really digging the ‘two-way’ trade logistics of this. Just wondering if ‘agreements’ can ever work out this way. I realize there can be lots of factors (like NYY won’t want him back if he under performs here).

  398. #499 DSF: One of my pet peeves is using “absolutes”. Like saying “Huff “ALWAYS” rolls over and pulls ground balls to first.” Simply not true, there cannot be an argument made that this is a “valid” statement. O Cab doesn’t drop “EVERY” pop-up. Torres isn’t an “automatic out”.
    =============

    Agree on the absolutes!

    Another “absolute” that drives me nuts is folks somehow guaranteeing a loss based on the the line-up before the first pitch is made. Those “predictions” may be based on emotions or stats, but there are other factors that impact each player in each game.

    A recent example is the “B Team” starting against CO. Many posters here, talking heads, etc., were all gloom and doom … yet that lineup obviously was successful.

  399. dsf,

    the handshake issue is best described in the history of the A’s when they were in KC. The book,

    The Kansas City A’s and the Wrong Half of the Yankees: How the Yankees Controlled Two of the Eight American League Franchises During the 1950s by Jeff Katz.

    has the gory details. From the Baseball Almanc, the short form;

    “Connie Mack’s family sold the Philadelphia Athletics in 1954, and Yankee principal owner Dan Topping arranged for one of his business friends, Arnold Johnson, to buy the A’s and move the team to Kansas City. It’s still unclear how much influence the Yankee ownership held over the A’s, but the two teams then embarked on a six-year series of trades. These trades, as we shall see, almost always favored the Yankees.”

    Perhaps the most well known ‘handshake player’ was Roger Maris.

  400. @ PITA

    I would like to ask your permission to refer to your link (post #357)
    to reveal indentity of Tooter Turtle.The reasons I ask are twofold.

    1. I would not like in any way for you to be linked to possible reaction
    that may result.

    2. I am not sure who you feel about the person I would like to expose and would not like to harm our friendship.

    If you respond in the negitive I promiss to you I will never exspose this person now, or anytime in the future.

    Thanks. vgf

  401. @ VGF #511: +
    >Simply type in +. That’s it.

    “I’m in!”

    I actually don’t like (“hate”?) the idea of quoting anything from Radnich, but I was thinking of a: g/k

    for “good knowledge” on a stat or link or data someone shares that we appreciate. Different from the well-known ITA (I Totally Agree), and more encompassing than a simple “thanks”.
    —————-

    @ PITA #512 +
    >I agree trading Pill would be the best move to alleviate the log jam dsf described. He’s older and his value is at an all time high.

    I’d be crazy upset if he becomes anything NEAR what he was in the minors at the MLB level and we trade him away. A lot more palatable if he’s in a package (w/ J. Sanchez and others?) for Hanley Ramirez or JJ Hardy or (gasp!) Jose Bautista? Oh Yeah!

    Giants off-season promo: “Buy any three players and get a Huff for free!”
    ———

    @ JD4SF #514: + ITA
    >Agree on the absolutes! …“predictions” may be based on emotions or stats, but there are other factors that impact each player in each game.

  402. @vgf @3:11p,

    I’m not sure how my post of a youtube link is related, but I see no harm in using it as you describe. Permission granted. 🙂

  403. dsf

    “Giants off-season promo: “Buy any three players and get a Huff for free!””

    Ha ha ha ha ha!

  404. @ PITA #517: +
    >the handshake issue is best described in the history of the A’s when they were in KC…

    Wow, thanks. That is some really good ‘inside baseball’ history and info. Maris. Yeah. I’m sure it’s been done for individuals before too. I actually think, under-handedly NYY could use the 2012 team option, and trade him to us. Then we sign a 2-yr and trade him at the 2013 trade deadline even. But then the Yanks don’t get their draft picks. Just wondering.

    I highly doubt- of ALL the possible computations and options for FA/trade- that the Giants would have the EXACT same thought as me on Swisher being a perfect two-way trade. But I see lots of logic behind this for each side.

  405. @dsf @3:24,

    Thanks for the praise, but it was Channel that provided that info. 🙂

  406. Pita, dsf,

    the trouble with trading Pill is the potential you walk away from. His ISO, (Isolated Power (ISO) is a measure of a hitter’s raw power, in terms of extra bases per AB. Its formula is ISO = (2B + (3B*2) + (HR*3)) / AB ) increased 2.5 fold after they brought him up. An anomoly, maybe, but that kind of change moving up from AAA to the Bigs is as rare as lips on a chicken.

    That’s the kind of thing Jose Bautista did with the Jays, seemingly overnight. His minor league career NEVER hinted at that, rather he might be a Belt like prospect at best, when you consider his competition. Walking away from Pill or Brown as well would be a major error in judgement I don’t think the Giants will make. IMO, just looking at those two guys swings is like music to the eyes. Belt never had that, nor Crawford.

  407. tito

    i understand that as it relates to racing…ty…i guess…

    just read a few articles on WAR…it seems to make a lot of assumptions… 1 article mentions how utley is more valueable then puljos when you figure in contract…i guess that’s what tito’s talking about…

    i’ll just stick with what i know…

  408. @ CC @3:27p,

    You have a good point. I’m just worried that Pill will never get the opportunity to truly blossom with our current manager. If that turns out to be the case, the best value in Pill would be a trade for something that our manager would actually use. They’ve held the kid back now until he’s 27 saying he’s not even a prospect. Do you think he’ll really get a fair shot at 1B full time in the near future?

  409. my bad…

    @ channelclemente #517: +
    >the handshake issue is best described in the history of the A’s when they were in KC…

    My, uhhh, many thanks for all this. see my above post #523. My apologies on the mix up.

    ————

    Geez. 527 posts and counting? Sorry all who are checking on smart phones and scrolling 28 screens down. ugghhhhh.

  410. dsf, no big deal, good book and is on Amazon.

    Pita,

    one of the few comparables to Pill is Brett Boone on the Padres in 2000, I think. .250 hitter, WAR = .1 or .2. They trade him to the Mariners and he morphs into a .330+ hitter with WAR = 7 or so next year and sustains. Bochy was DADDY FRIAR then, I would bet a lot he won’t let that happen again, especially with a rook as opposed to FA like Boone was or was near to being.

  411. Pita,

    that’s my point the Pill you see today didn’t exist 4-5 months ago. Something qualitatively is different about his at bats, ergo the Bautista comparison.

  412. Just curious …
    I’ve been into horses since I was a kid, and a horse breeder for a couple of decades. (Among other things.) Higher quality horses are generally bred for conformation best suited for the intended task. (What you look for in a jumper is very different than the conformation of a cow horse, draft horse, etc. ) Form for function certainly doesn’t gurantee the horse will excel in that role, but in general provides a good place to start.

    Understanding that there is much more to being a ML ballplayer than how that player is built, I’m curious what folks think might be commonly found in successful players for various positions, as hitters, etc. What seems to work better, and why?

  413. dsf

    Please explain to me looking at the NYY outfielders past Granderson, and their prospects into next season, why they would trade Swisher or not pick up Swish’s option?

    There isn’t one amoung them hitting as well as Aubrey Huff…..

    The Yanks happily pick up Swishers option, and Sign Beltran to replace Posada at DH. I am assuming Big Papi re-ups in Beantown.

    WIN WIN for NYY…..

    Now, you could prehaps put a package containing Sanchez and some more to try get Swisher. But its going to take an arm for the rotation. The NYY would prefer a proven MLB ready arm. They might mention Sanchez and Vogelsong or soemthing as lopsided. Although I would bet, as soon as the phone is answered, the Yanks will want Cain. They probably won’t even entertain Swisher for less in their mind if you’re bothering to call. They’re going to hope your nervous about an extension. The ownership turmoil has you worrying about budget and they won’t make happy partners. As which case you thank Cashman for his time and hang up the phone.

    I would expect this type of treatment from many teams. Just about every team above the Giants in payroll class since 2007 had been approaching the Giants this way.

  414. *sigh*

    It’s been 30 minutes, and it still hasn’t updated…. *grumble*

  415. Here. Using architect Bucky Fuller’s concept of “Dymaxion” (a combo of the words “dynamic” and “maximum”), and applying it to a Giants lineup using good value/budget and performance. My “Total Estimated Payroll” (TEP) includes such things like Rowand and Zito contracts.

    2012 line-up, my TEP $138M:
    ____________
    SS Aybar
    2B F. Sanchez
    C Posey
    3B Sandoval
    LF Swisher
    1B Belt/Pill platoon
    RF Schierholtz
    CF Christian or other

    2013, my TEP $130M:
    ____________
    CF Brown
    SS Aybar
    3B Sandoval
    LF Swisher
    C Posey
    1B Belt
    2B Panik
    RF Schierholtz

    2014, my TEP $120M-ish:
    _____________
    CF Brown
    SS Aybar
    3B Sandoval
    LF Belt
    1B Posey
    C Joseph
    RF Schierholtz
    2B Panik

    You see the positions shift in the line-up. Lots of questions who performs and whether we have pitchers or have to pay FA’s. But I see this as, as realistic as any ‘projection’.

    We’ll have holes to fill. I won’t get into bench and pitchers- gets REALLY long.

  416. does WAR take into account: home field, where a guy bats in the order, who bats in front and behind him, what pitchers he faced, game situations, day or night game, total games played, does he only platoon or face all…i mean, all these things and more can effect a players PA’s. and defense, is he a right fielder with a predominatly righty pitching staff, how much foul territory, on and on…

    i think this is probably why people who don’t like all the new stats, don’t like them, because we know that we can trust our eyes and that numbers can be made to say what ever you want…utley more valueble then puljos…lol

  417. @PITA

    Refering to post #524

    Took some time to think this out. That was last straw. What did I do to deserve that. That’s why good people won’t post on this blog.

    To all my friends I thank you all very much for your kind words and support. Be well good people.

    vgf out.

  418. @ dsf says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Who are you projecting to trade in your suggested budget?

  419. robert,

    the closest you’ll get to a complete definition. Study required to understand the assumptions. It is also important to know that there are two versions of WAR calculations out there, Fangraph and Baseball Prospectus, that emphasize a few things differently. So make sure any given application of the stat is using the same basis method. I prefer the Fangraph method developed by Tom Tango (google tomtiger). Readum and weep.

    http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/how_to_calculate_war/

  420. @ Chris Boyd #537:
    >Please explain to me looking at the NYY outfielders past Granderson, and their prospects into next season, why they would trade Swisher or not pick up Swish’s option?

    I’ve gone into this in detail. A fast review. If money isn’t an issue, I think Beltran is highly attractive at maybe $4-5M more than Swish per year. If they let Swish go as a FA, draft picks to replenish their farm. Beltran fits for 4 years: 2 in RF then 2 as DH.

    Buzz I hear/read is that NYY likely won’t extend Swish past 2013, after their option is done. So, let him go 1 year early (with SOLID replacement in Beltran) and get needed draft picks. Makes some sense to me?

    Obviously, I can understand your doubts. I’m not sure they’ll see this MY way. LOL.

    And yes, we could have payroll become a stumbling block in any negotiations. All GM’s know we’re in some kinda turmoil in our FO. And that works against us as leverage. That’s why our FO has to PROVE that isn’t any issue and bump to $140M payroll. We can’t keep trading like: Hembree, Fitzgerald, Brown… Like Wheeler. We CAN’T.

    Hey JD4SF: ” we ABSOLUTELY can’t”. *lol*.

  421. dsf, is Aybar a free agent, or would we ennd to trade for him?

    Clemente, I don’t think the Giants walk away from Pill, Belt or Brown. Belt may have the most power potential. Note, as mentioned in the Sunday broadcast, Belt has fewer than 800 professional at bats. Pill has over 3,000. Give Belt a little time to cut down on strikeouts.

    2nd note, one of the big knocks on Brown is he doesn’t take enough walks. He may need more minor league time than you are projecting to be a good leadoff guy from the jump.

  422. @ vgf
    Gotta learn to ignore those who are rude, or there would be NO posters on this blog other than those in troll mode, and Baggs would be blogging with the comments portion closed for input.

  423. Scott,

    yeah none are ‘finished’ ballplayers, but then they shouldn’t be. My point about Pill was his Jaekle and Hyde ISO performance. There are apparently 5 guys who have had that kind of change in performance, who were not juiced, in the last 20-30 years. Can he sustain, we’ll see. My take, Belt is Hunter Pence, which is a keeper.

    Anybody going to see Moneyball this weekend, good reviews.

    http://www.boxofficemagazine.com/reviews/2011-09-moneyball

  424. I hate Jerry Reuss…
    Said he saw No-No take shape
    In his scambled eggs

  425. dsf says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
    547..
    […] We can’t keep trading like: Hembree, Fitzgerald, Brown… Like Wheeler. We CAN’T.
    Hey JD4SF: ” we ABSOLUTELY can’t”. *lol*.
    =========

    Yes, we need to protect and develop our future Giants. But unable to predict the future we may end up with situations that demand we consider giving up a prospect, we may suddenly need a different position talent, etc.

    The situation can change in a heartbeat. Think how Buster’s injury changed perspective!

    Absolutely never say never! 😉

  426. channel…

    thanks for the link…lot’s of reading to do now!! thx again

    read just a quick excerpt from a chapter…had to do with the sac bunt vs swinging away…without reading the chapter, or any more then he says the bunt is a ” poor decision, not even close”…question: would you agree that THIS season with THIS Giants team and given the poor offensive production, that the SB would have been a better play then swinging away? i’m talking about players not named beltran, sandoval.

  427. I think I might assume a new handle since there is a CB and me to make things cornfoosing….

  428. robert,

    Statistically, a sac bunt, unless it’s a pitcher, ( excepting those like Drysdale who hit .300 for the season in 1965 or 66) is never a good idea. A squeeze is, however, not a scarifice and is a horse of a different color. A sac bunt in my mind, is a bunt that a defense is expecting and prepared to react to. That’s why I think drag bunts like we’ve seen Stewart execute is more of a planned, infield single than a sacrifice.

  429. @ VGF #543:
    Please hang in there with us. I, for one, greatly value all your insights and opinions here. Be well.
    —————-

    @ JD4SF #544:
    >Who are you projecting to trade in your suggested budget?

    This gets very long-winded. Basically, J. Sanchez and Ramirez are gone. I actually keep Mota, Affeldt AND Lopez. You can tinker with our UT guy being DeRo or Kepp at maybe $4M or Burriss at $600k. Or who our 4th OF is. So many variables each year. Just simple ‘maybes’ and humble projections of mine. YMMV.

    $ left is 2012, contracts are somewhat back-loaded. This looks messy on my screen… sorry.

    6___Aybar $46M/6-yr
    6___F. Sanchez $6M/1
    1.2__Posey $12.5/3
    2.6__Sandoval $17.5/3
    11___Swisher $23.5/2
    .5___Belt $4.2M/3
    .8___Schierholtz $7.8M/3
    .45__Christian

    .6___Peguero
    10___Huff $10M/1+
    .45__Pill
    4___Keppinger $9M/2
    .45__H. Sanchez

    18___Lincecum $78M/4
    .9___Bumgarner $9.3/3
    16.5__Cain $96M/5
    2____Vogelsong $5.6M/2
    19___Zito $46M/2+

    1.85__Mota $1.85M/1
    .45___Matos or Otero
    2____Casilla $8.5M/3
    2.4___Romo $10.35M/3
    5____Affeldt $5M/1
    3.75__Lopez $7.95M/2+
    8.5___Wilson $30.5M/3

    Total is $124.4M
    add Rowand’s $13.6M reported salary

    2012 Total Estimated Payroll = $138M

    tradable: Gillaspie, Burriss, Ford, Culberson, Eldred, Cavan, Adrianza, (lots of others), and (maybe) Crawford. I’d like to keep him in our system for our 40-man if possible. I think Chris Dominguez would be good on the bench in 2013 (replace Huff). Let the brain trust decide who goes.

    Untouchables(?): Gary Brown, Joe Panik, Tommy Joseph, and maybe a couple arms.

  430. channel…

    i take it back, no reading to do…read the article that he tries to disprove ” clutch “…so he chooses the best hitter left and the fans choose their favorite player? what kind of comparison is that? why not compare best BA w/ RISP against the best hitter wOBA? i know, i know…RBI’s are over rated…blah blah blah…where would our giants be right now if we changed 1 stat…BA w/RISP from .160 to .260 (which still isn’t very good?

    I can’t even imagine how anyone could watch the Giants this year and think the RBI is an over rated stat…sorry

    not ranting at you channel…just ranting…lol

  431. @ Scott #549:
    >dsf, is Aybar a free agent, or would we need to trade for him?

    Hey Scott. Sorry, I try to not repeat myself constantly here. If you’ve missed my thoughts from previous days/posts…

    Yes, we’d have to trade for him. He’s my #1 target. Lots of upside, stats still low enough to MAYBE be traded away, young, healthy, decent value structure IMO, and I believe will only get better & better. Can also be lead-off or #2 hitter IMHO. Perfect balance of speed, power, avg. Would easily hit 35-40 2B for us and steal 30+ bags per year.

    My proposal is J. Sanchez for Aybar. I believe Anaheim does NOT have a LHP starter in their rotation. PERFECT!
    ————————-
    >Brown… doesn’t take enough walks

    I believe this is still a big concern they are trying to improve. We want him as our lead-off guy. But his overall numbers… Wow. And an arm from deep CF that could ACTUALLY get assists from Triples Alley? Are you kidding me?

    I’ve gotta see THAT in play. Ownage at third from Triples Alley. Oh dear, Nate fans… LOL.

  432. yes channel.
    , i like the drag bunt as well, what i’m saying is that THIS team would have been well served to get runners to second w/ 1 out…not most teams…not even average teams…but THIS team, THIS year.

  433. @ dsf says: September 19th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
    =======
    Interesting. All subject to change and adjustment between now and then, but it gives a sense of what might be an option for the dollars.

    Meanwhile I’m getting amped for the Kershaw-Lincecum match-up tomorrow. Different park and more challenging pitching so I don’t expect to see runaway scoring, but I do think SF will have an advantage going into this game. The Giants are pumped and confident we have solid pitching, O and D deep into the bench. Betting the Dodgers are feeling rather wary of THIS Giants team coming to play. 😉

  434. dsf,

    comment. I wouldn’t say Crawford is still ‘tradeable, IMO. Second, I think Lopez is gone as a FA.

    What’s the love affair with Swisher, a .260-.270 hitter at best. He’s making $7MM or so a year now, and without that short LF at Yankee Stadium, has a lot less pwer than in the park here.

  435. robert,

    it seems that a runner in scoring position makes sense, but the statistical issues, particularly with a team like this doesn’t make sense. If you steal 2nd, and then sac, it’s about even money then.

  436. @ JD4SF #561:
    >Interesting…

    I spend 40 minutes converting an Excel sheet to a comment… Care to elaborate any further on your opinions? I don’t care if you disagree, maybe you or someone else will enlighten me how/why Huff should be gone or Burriss is better than Keppinger for our Bench, or what Zito does instead of start.

    Or something else entirely. ATM, I see the potential of a $140M team… I would be absolutely PSYCHED to see every day!

  437. I want to concentrate on two of Dusty Baker’s two favorite expressions:

    (1) Practice Random Act’s of a Kindness….
    (In honor of Bryan Stow)

    (2) Win One Game At a Time…
    (In “Honor” of the last 8 games)

  438. Chris Boyd —

    —No reason to visit myredbook now….
    🙂

    —Nice to see you’ve got your Avatar loaded and ready to shoot, I mean go…

  439. channel

    just an open discussion i hope, not angry at all…

    i think what you seem to be missing in my thoughts is THIS team THIS year…stats you are talking about are compiled over seasons and seasons, and assume a mean… i’m only talking this one team for this one year, throw all accumulitive stats out the window (so to speak)

  440. anthillunda2nd says: September 19th, 2011 at 9:23 amRE: Lefty Couldn’t disagree more. All-star game, BW made a national tv plea for Beltran to come play by the cove.Our brass pulled the trigger and got a guy who is raking as we had hoped. Kepp is a total success and should be a Giant for some time. O-cab, agree there, a blunder.Trades are always risks, but Bow-tie and co. tried their best to piece together something after catastrophe struck.
    Nobody would’ve guessed the farm hands would be this good and leading the charge.

    —We have the best posters. When one of us feels they’ve latched on to something…Another poster comes here and balances us all out.
    We’re still in this thing and you got up this morning to whine, you even eat breakfast yet? Losing Posey and Sanchez would make most teams wilt, we’re in this by a thread.

    —Good job anthillunda.

    —Also JD4SF had a great post regarding the past, present and future and she nailed it as to putting into perspective what is really important.

    —Good JOB, JD 🙂

  441. Hi all, this thread is huge! most of the discussion on future players is way above my head, but very happy to learn more and more.

    Just a Hi and holler out to as much as I can catch up on for now, #555-540: @dsf, @vgf, @jd4sf, @omt, @channelclement, @dinero, @chrisboyd, @sshc, @robert, @scott.

    got 2 Qs for the baseball experts:

    (1) What stats r most important when assessing a hitter?

    I have been taught it’s not just BA, OBP, OPS, but also the BB/SO ratio. (So, if a guy takes lotsa walks, but if he S/O equally, it’s not favorable.)

    (2) Is there a stat for measuring *clutch* RBI’s, i.e., game-winning, etc, or does that have to be considered on a game-by-game basis?

    I ask bcuz I felt that Uribe wz one of r super clutch RBI guys last year, even if his BA wzn’t highest on the team, and wondered if there is a stat that would reflect his clutch RBI’s. (so that maybe we could find another Uribe-like guy in the league,who isn’t going to cost us superstar $$$)

  442. p.s. forgot to list @clutchup, sorry! i always enjoy your posts too, even if totally above my head most of the time

  443. @ channelclemente #562:
    >I wouldn’t say Crawford is still ‘tradeable, IMO. Second, I think Lopez is gone as a FA.

    What’s the love affair with Swisher, a .260-.270 hitter at best. He’s making $7MM or so a year now, and without that short LF at Yankee Stadium, has a lot less pwer than in the park here.

    ———–

    Maybe Crawford isn’t tradeable. I’m fine with that. Let’s keep him. Maybe Lopez is gone, but he’s got a nice role here. I think he wants to pitch MORE, so you may be right- he’s going.

    I don’t have any… ‘thing’ for Swisher. Switch hitter, good power, good avg. Strikesout a bit much, but everyone has their issues. He’s used to pressure and winning ways. He’s not some insane $18M/yr bloated contract either.

    Basically, pick a LF player. I’ll take Melky Cabrera, Jeff Francoeur, Michael Cuddyer, Adam Jones, Nick Markakais. ANY of them. But let’s see their salary fit with us. Let’s see it fit a 2-year contract until maybe Belt is full-time in LF. Tell me how they could be available. I don’t see many options. Just trying to find a great fit, that’s all.

    The FA market is weak. If you can find how Kemp fits, great. But what about 2012? Otherwise, you need some IDEA how you get a guy here. I think trade. I think Swisher COULD be available if some factors work right (the NYY want Beltran, for instance). I don’t really want Willingham or DeJesus or Kubel or Fukudome.

    So, give me a player. Tell me who and how. I am interested in ANY ideas. I may disagree, as you may with me; but I like reading other informed thoughts here. But to say “we should trade for Mike Stanton”. LOL, hardly likely, ya know what I mean?

  444. dsf:
    —I don’t have any real favorite. Anyone who walks through THOSE doors is somebody I will root for.
    I don’t have a sense for Swisher having back to back good years, not a Melky Cabrera fan (the name Cabrera, and my hands start to shake) + he is more than likely older than his listed age. No to Francouer. Cuddyer would be a keeper.

    —Dan Uggla just hit a solo HR. 4 to 2 currently.

    —Ricky Nolasco may be on fumes for the Fish. Funny how he NEVER ran out of gas when facing us.

    —Two Outs man on First, Heyward up (who has already homered once)

  445. E-B says: September 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm p.s. forgot to list @clutchup, sorry! i always enjoy your posts too, even if totally above my head most of the time

    —EB, thanks I think

    🙂 Enjoy your stuff and I will try to do better and dial back anything I write here…

  446. dsf says: September 19th, 2011 at 5:22 pm @ JD4SF #561:
    >Interesting…I spend 40 minutes converting an Excel sheet to a comment… Care to elaborate any further on your opinions? I don’t care if you disagree, maybe you or someone else will enlighten me how/why Huff should be gone or Burriss is better than Keppinger for our Bench, or what Zito does instead of start.Or something else entirely. ATM, I see the potential of a $140M team… I would be absolutely PSYCHED to see every day!

    —Dave/SF: Just a wild guess. Maybe 40 minute spread sheets are more for the corporate world or another baseball site….

    —Extra Baggs might, can’t say for sure, be for more ordinary thoughts on what is going on right now, right this second, yesterday, today and tomorrow. Tough to talk salaries and new acquisitions with this few amount of games left…

    —Were WE ALL doing this at this time last year? I can’t remember because I was working double shifts to try and pay for my post season ticket possibilities 🙂

    MARLIN PITCHING CHANGE: Braves have baggs loaded two outs. The Fish brought in Dunn to face Bourne…

  447. Braves 5 – Other team 4

    Error by Omar Infante on easy ground ball…close call at first base. Chipper “legged” it out…

    Uggla with bases loaded…

  448. Ralph is such a self-righteous twit. Listening to Baggs now on 1050.

    Pablo has put on 15-20 lbs, Baggs says, but his energy level has held up, unlike last year.

    Other Baggs comments:

    Pill’s swing is simple, balanced – no obvious holes.

    Cody Ross likely too expensive to keep.

    Giants played loose only when it looked like it was “over” in the West. They stopped grinding, started hitting – an odd dynamic that proves humans play this game, not stat machines.

    Lincecum long-term deal not very likely, until he knows how much offense the Giants will have. 5 years for $85M (Weaver deal) might be a starting point.

    Linececum won’t be interested in BOS or NYY for big $$; SEA the only AL team that fits for him, given his personality.

    Beltran is most likely gone – AL is where he belongs, he loafs after balls in RF. Doesn’t see the Giants offering more than 2 years, will sign late b/c he’s a Boras client. So Giants will fill other needs first this offseason.

    Zito’s contract is like “funny money” because it’s so off the charts, a contract from another era. Heard a rumor of Zito for Figgins, but thinks he’ll be back next year. Magowan wined and dined Zito; other teams offered over $100M.

    Giants’ chances to advance went up from 0.01% to 5% in the last week, but they have to win 8 more of the remaining 9 to have a chance.

  449. dsf said -I’d be cool if we could eat $6.5M on Huff and trade him ANYWHERE. But, he has enough ‘value’ that I wouldn’t “eat” his full $10M and leave him off the roster completely. He’d be a very expensive bench guy if I had my way. If he got hot? Sure, he’d start a week straight, maybe. Otherwise, he’d have 120 AB’s maybe in 2012.

    —Dave: If they do not creatively move Aubrey and he returns, he is NOT sitting anywhere except at first base. The CULTURE of major league baseball is such that he WONT be a bench guy. He’ll work his BEE-hind off and be at first base on opening day, hopefully having worked out all his demons…

  450. Big if, but if Lincecum decides to decamp, my guess, the Angels. I forget who, but someone else suggested that first, but Scioscia is a top notch manager.

  451. CC: I doubt Timmy wants a bigger city than here; can they sell LA to him as low-key?

  452. avwh says: September 19th, 2011 at 6:20 pm Ralph is such a self-righteous twit. Listening to Baggs now on 1050.Pablo has put on 15-20 lbs, Baggs says, but his energy level has held up, unlike last year.

    —avwh: I dont want to get myself started for the good of boring this board, but I listened to Ralph yell at Kevin Lynch when Lynch supported the 49er HC for “not taking the points off the board”….and now, like YOU I had to that whiny voice talk over Tolbert and Baggs….especially regarding Zito….

    —Truthfully Barbieri knows where the bodies are buried and has TMZ type photos of his bosses doing things with animals…

  453. I sure hope Baggerly gets bonused by the number of hits/posts like Schulman does at the Chronicle. This has got to be approaching a record.

  454. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 6:21 pm Clutch, you too can come to despise Jack McKeon, his team does.

    —When was the last time Trader Jack was relevant? 15 yrs ago?

  455. For payroll consideration:

    The Giants opening day payroll was 118 Million Bucks.

    With Beltran aboard at 4 million, it’s up to 122 mil. Throw in Keppinger and a little OCab and I suppose the final figure was closer to 124 million.

    So maybe that’s the figure fans should be cognizant of when rosterbating 2012.

    Call it 125 million.

  456. From what I’ve seen of the Angels fan experience it’s not LA like at all. Families and stuff, so in many ways it’s like AT&T. Everybody who ever played for Scioscia seems to love it. Playing in Seattle is like playing in a morgue. Great place to winter, but beyond that???

  457. What’s the record for posts in a single thread here?

    CU: Ralph’s got a face made for radio and a voice made for deaf people. I used to like him years and years ago, but now I can barely stand listening to him as he rambles and interrupts in almost all his interviews.

    Cards and Braves now winning. No help from the Fish or Phils.

  458. Braves bullpen versus Marlins is……T O U G H………

    Phillies have cut the lead to one run….vs the Cards…

  459. Since McKeon stiffed Charlie Lau, I’ve had no use for him. He’s a bag of poultry poop dimwittedness. He’s the best argument for birth control I know. Too bad his parents had no rythym.

  460. dsf says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
    565..
    @ JD4SF #561:
    >Interesting…

    I spend 40 minutes converting an Excel sheet to a comment… Care to elaborate any further on your opinions?
    =============

    Sorry, should have clarified I think your proposed team has potential. If some of our rookie bats look better and more stable for the MLB level in a month or 4, I’d consider the potential one/some of them might end up as 2012 starters. (Example: Crawford if his bat stays smart.) But securing some proven, existing players also gives those hotter rookies more time to develop at the MLB level and provides more depth. And I like that you’re relying more on TEAM offense not just impact hitters.

    We currently have weaknesses we need to shore up. Yours was a good example of how that might be done, within an estimated budget.

    Since I don’t have a reliable crystal ball, I’m not ready to dive too deep into 2012 yet. We still have the rest of this season to finish and some cold months to get through, and I try to not lock on to a particular strategy knowing there is also potential for notable change and adjustment before the dust settles. A player may not be available, which can mean a lot of reconsidering and adjusting based on who IS available. The budget might be different. Other factors.

    Even next week you might be scratching one of your key proposed acquisitions due to serious injury that makes the player far less viable for 2012. We may ride the wave strong into postseason and rookie X pretty much clinches a start for 2012, which can again change the picture. Or one of our current key players lands himself with a career threatening injury (knock hard on wood!) and suddenly we’re focused on a different position and contribution.

    I figure Giants are also doing some thinking along similar lines for 2012, but remaining flexible. DSF I think what you have proposed may be a good place to start … but keep that Excel file handy because as time passes I won’t be surprised to hear you’re making adjustments. ;-/

  461. Clutchup,

    the Braves bullpen is about shot. The two lead dogs have over 70 appearances each. They are not the same crew that swept us earlier this year, far from it. So let’s hope for the best, and go yeah Pirates a few times.

  462. @avwh says: September 19th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
    What’s the record for posts in a single thread here?

    —I posted below that we would easily “pop” 600, now 700 might be possible.September 19th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    T9th inning Braves 5 – Fish 4 Venters and Craig Kimbrel will be hard to scatch out a run in the B9th…

    Cards/Phills 4-3 B9th at Citizens – Cards pitching change Arthur Rhodes OUT…

  463. @ avwh #581:
    > re: Baggs recap on KNBR.

    Thanks for all that. I just couldn’t listen. I greatly appreciate you taking time to write up some points from it.

    Zito for Figgins? Chone Figgins? ho-hum.

    Sounds like I agree with a lot of what Baggs had to say though.
    ——————

    @ ClutchUp #583:
    Sure, I get it, Huff isn’t likely to sit. I said, if I had my way a platoon would be called for with Pill. Whether he works his butt off? We’ll see. It’s not like I think he was “trying” to fail this year though either. I’ll be “hopeful” but also say it’s all “questionable” right now.
    ——————

    @ channelclemente #584:
    >Big if, but if Lincecum decides to decamp, my guess, the Angels. I forget who, but someone else suggested that first, but Scioscia is a top notch manager.
    ————–

    That’s was me, I believe. I don’t see the NYY wanting him over Cain, and may be risk adverse to his potential injuries. BOS I don’t see, the city isn’t his type, hot summers to play in, etc.

    I just don’t see SEA being a player for him. They can’t carry his payroll and field a winning team IMO. Again, I point to COL and the Tulo contract. It is like shooting themselves in the foot. Can’t do it.

    I also said there may be a dark horse in the running for Tim. Look at Ubaldo Jimenez as a perfect example. Who saw THAT coming? Maybe MIN or CIN? Heck, maybe WAS, but I don’t think so. But I wouldn’t count out the Nats for anything at this point, they look to be building for 2013 and a SERIOUS run at the playoffs from then on. Tim can pitch in hot weather, but I doubt he WANTS well over 120 games in that type of heat.

    Anaheim seems most likely to me. Others may believe different, I know there are lots of possibilities (like, 29 other teams. lol). Maybe only 7 can realistically pay him. My deductions say Anaheim, if he leaves.

  464. Man I hate the Marlins. They are determined to screw us any way possible. Those loser turds.

  465. Here we go: 3 up and down for the Bravo’s….

    B9th Greg Dobbs vs Kimbrel F7 one out

    John Baker now batting…

  466. Marlins have runner on….
    Chipper Jones lost a ground ball in the lights… 😉

    Infante batting…

    Stanton on deck…

  467. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
    Clutchup,the Braves bullpen is about shot. The two lead dogs have over 70 appearances each. They are not the same crew that swept us earlier this year, far from it. So let’s hope for the best, and go yeah Pirates a few times.

    —Thank You Channel:
    —Logan Morrison hit a tape measure HR early in the game
    —Mike Stanton had hit TWO long home runs

    —With two outs Bonafacio somehow hit a BOUNDING GROUND ball that Jones lost in the lights (Oxymororn?) Marlins official scorer ruled error but changed right away.

    —Kimbrel BUZZED Omar Infante HIGH AND INSIDE knocking him down on the first pitch…..

    —Infante hits 2 run walk off home run to beat the Braves 6 to 5…

  468. Omar being interviewed ALA Matsui – type interpretor….

    Giant fans=be happy for our great interviews with Pablo and others, I am listening to the Omar interview and the interpretor is AWOL, so the Fish announcers are struggling…

    Omar very sad over his earlier error in the game 🙂

  469. @ Foothills Ryan #589:
    >re: Call it 125 million.

    Yeah, I can agree- sure. But I think Beltran came with some money and we only paid $2.2M-ish on him. Add the propsect contracts we purchased (like Pill and Christian, etc). I’d still agree $125M is right there.

    However, IF this included trade deadline moves. Can we use the $121 opening day total of $121M? (I know Cot’s says $118M, but other considerations like prospects are considered).

    Not a big deal. A guy like J. Sanchez seems priced out. Maybe Affeldt too. But, probably not BOTH Affeldt and Lopez. Agreed?

    Bottom Line:
    We’ll likely have less than $8M to spend to build our team, if they retain most of the key players. My point (yesterday?) was that starting this 2011 season we spent $38M to build our team; next year $8M.

  470. OFF TOPIC

    In light of 9/11 passing by ten days ago…A MLB umpire I know just sent this to me via email.

    —I can’t believe I had never seen this—

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxR1tZ08FcI&feature=youtu.be

    Note: This is not a political statement so PLEASE no Bush comments!

    Things that stuck out while watching this about 6 times already
    (1) Everything…
    (2) Jeter and Bush interaction…
    (3) Bob Brenly’s comments…
    (4) Joe Torre…
    (5) Paul O’Neil talking about Bomb Dogs…
    (6) The Quality of this video…
    (7) Scott Gutterson’s delivery…
    (8)”David Fishers” comments regardless of who “you” voted for…

  471. @ JD4SF #594:
    >…We currently have weaknesses we need to shore up. Yours was a good example of how that might be done, within an estimated budget…

    Yeah, I certainly realize there are many considerations. Many unknowns. Many potentials. I can only work with so much. And I’ve said many times how I don’t mind if Swisher is swapped out for another bat. I don’t think there are many lead-off hitters we should be looking at.

    Sure J-Roll is a FA. I’d rather not, but he’s certainly possible. If we sign Cuddyer, what are we giving up? Belt? ‘Cuz we’re likely giving away his position. See? It gets complicated. I’ve tried to consider A LOT and come up with something.

    I guess, I am saying it is POSSIBLE to do A LOT, without too much payroll stress IMO. I’m also thinking Pujols/Fielder/Reyes don’t fit as well in the big scheme of things here in SF. Heck, even Kemp in 2013 is a ‘tougher fit’ IMO.

    I appreciate your sharing your thoughts.

    I surmise people don’t like the lineup. I’ve not once read someone comment they’d be excited to see this team out their in our Giants uni’s. Guess a lot want Fielder and/or Reyes/Beltran, dunno.

  472. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 7:10 pm Clutch,
    JOBU IS IN THE HOUSE!!! Now lets ride Kershaw hard and put him away wet.

    –CC–

    —I am sure YOU’VE noticed that I haven’t been able to take DOWN my Ryan Vogelsong Gravatar – since the Win Won Game In A Row…(8) thing started…

    —I wanted so bad to go back to Cerano….but not so fast 🙂

  473. I was just looking at the standings and I think the Cardinals are a game short if we come out tied at season’s end in the win column. Wonder if they had a RO that wasn’t made up? I think for tie breakers and playoff game issues to come into play, both teams have to have 162 or at least the same number of games under their belt. Could someone verify my fried brain estimate.

  474. Braves lose? Thanks all for the updates.

    Wow, this is pretty interesting. So, did our percentage just go up to 6.5%? We’re 3.5 back? This is crazy… Could it?…

  475. dsf,

    It safer to surmise many of us are exhausted from the LU momba that has gone on here all summer long. Nothing personnal, but I start to twitch if I read more than Baggerly’s lineup.

  476. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 7:21 pm Clutchup, Change NOTHING! You get the credit.

    🙂 Yea, sure easy for you to say. This “set” of clothing that I haven’t changed is a bit…….

  477. @ channelclemente #619:
    >Nothing personnal, but I start to twitch if I read more than Baggerly’s lineup.

    Okay. I got it. No more.

    Be well. Cheers.

  478. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 7:24 pm dsf,It safer to surmise many of us are exhausted from the LU momba that has gone on here all summer long. Nothing personnal, but I start to twitch if I read more than Baggerly’s lineup.

    —CC: And to go a step farther and quote Chris Boyd: The best lineup is the one that Bochy posts.

    —I know that’s hard for 60-100% of the posters here to swallow, but it’s not meant (at least by me) in an actual literal sense…It’s just there was so much negativity around this time last year…

    —“Pulling on the same end of the rope now that Miggy and ARow…have departed…needs a lot of SYNERGY…for any miracle to happen…

    —One bad loss or move by Bochy that people HERE don’t agree with and I may not be able to keep my own composure—

    —ALTHOUGH this was the HEADLINE one year ago TODAY
    “Jose Guillen’s slam backs Zito’s win as Giants take first in NL West”

    http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=300919126

  479. I think if the Giants beat Kershaw tomorrow, the Braves (who are already collapsing) and DBacks will start to feel their collars tighten….

    One game at a time, boys! Win ’em one at a time.

    Great video, CU. Without getting into politics, what a different time in this country, huh? I remember that strike POTUS threw for the first pitch, but it was great seeing the background and commentary, and the fact Jeter put pressure on him to not bounce it, and to use the top of the mound.

  480. Okay, I take it back. The Marlins are okay … today. Nice one Omar.

  481. avwh says: September 19th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    —Agreed=this video here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcSIwBWiPoU

    —Is meant by ME to be funny rather than political. I think maybe Obama is more of a Hoops guy than “W”…

    —The first half of the video is still patriotic as hell and gave me chill bumps.

    —I am STILL made at 9/11 for everything. Our Summer baseball team TRAVELS every summer and taking 40 people on and airline trip is a nightmare…

  482. @dsf

    Nice. Swapping Sanchez for Aybar. I like that. Angels might want more.

  483. dsf says: September 19th, 2011 at 7:27 pm @ channelclemente #619:
    >Nothing personnal, but I start to twitch if I read more than Baggerly’s lineup.Okay. I got it. No more.Be well. Cheers.

    DSF:

    Please don’t get too high or too low. Stay on balance. Your stuff can be SOLID, it just gets overwhelming on Sept 19th 2011 and ONLY for ME pesonally…It’s way OVER my head.

    —You will be NEED and a crucial Baggs supporter during those dark gloomy months as JD4SF spoke of…

    —Stay with us….

  484. channelclemente says: September 19th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
    If we win the NL West, I don’t even care if Zito gets into a game. Viva Chris Boyd, champion of the moneyline post.

    —Funny—

  485. ClutchUp #569 @ 5:31 p.m.: I always like your posts and was a bit bewildered by your congrats to anthillunda’s mean-spirited attack on mine early this morning.

    First of all, who cares what time I got up or if I ate breakfast? Do you also mock people who post in the middle of the night, or is it just early risers that bother you. (Not that it matters, but I had to be up early for work.). That was the mean-spirited part.

    Difference of opinion? Fine. We only know what did happen, not what might have happened if a different path had been taken.

    But for the record, I didn’t criticize the trades for Keppinger or Beltran. Only Cabrera.

    What I did criticize was sticking with something that was clearly not working. I stand by that analysis. By the end of that 3-7 homestand in early August, Beltran was hurt and the wheels were falling off. Within a few days we’d also lost Nate and several others. They did bring Belt back on the road trip, but we still had way too much Huff, Rowand, Tejada, Cabrera, a badly slumping Ross, and Whiteside. Game after game was lost with low scoring and shoddy defense.

    They waited at least 2-3 weeks too long to shake some things up, DFA people, and bring in reinforcements. Difference between us and Snakes: They brought up Goldschmidt and let him play. They offloaded Kelly Johnson. They played Cody Ransom to see if he could help. They changed things up until something clicked. They didn’t just stick with things that weren’t working.

    Is that whining? Whatever. I’ll be cheering every pitch of the next nine games like always, and I hope there’s a miracle finish.

    BUT, but–this winning streak has made it clear that things MAYBE could have been different. I prefer to call it legitimate frustration, and I bet many others feel it, too. That’s not to say we’re not all hoping for a happy ending.

  486. Am I in the right place?

    I meant to type and look up Extra Baggs

    I think I typed and got extra faggs.

    my bad.

  487. from today’s Atlanta Journal Constitution……”By losing 11 of their past 17 games, the Braves have allowed the St. Louis Cardinals, who were 10-1/2 games behind the Braves on Aug. 25, to close within 3-1/2 games of the wild-card lead.”

    note not one mention of the Gs sneakin’ up from the weeds – just the way we like it ! here’s the link to full article

    http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/09/19/september-swoon-redux-can-braves-hang-on-for-wc/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog

  488. Many of you probably won’t agree with this but I’m starting to think must have ESP in the last 9 wins for the Giants as far as line up is concerned. I’ve thought and been saying keep Crawford at short ( Bouchy seems to been doing that and he’s hitting, Belt in Left, Christen in Right and Pill at first BUT if Bouchy changes it I’m going to root my A*s off for the lineup. Whomever he has been putting out in field seems to be working. This is an exciting finish and I’m just hoping Atlanta and/or DBacks melt in last nine games and we run the schedule. Go Giants

  489. I’m still smiling at reruns of Infante turning around a nasty, rising, inside 96mph heater from Kimbrell and smoking it over the left field fence for a game winning 2-run bomb. Totally awesome.

    Too bad Pence couldn’t do the same thing in the exact same situation against the Cards. Cards took 3 of 4 in Philly. Boo!

  490. P.S.: What if:

    Instead of activating DeRosa on Aug 2, they brought up Pill then to get some RH ABs and starts at 1B? (The really ridiculous part of sending Belt down and activating DeRosa was that DeRo rotted on the bench for weeks. Complete waste of a roster spot when they were dying for offense.

    Instead of activating Tejada in Atlanta, they had brought Crawford back? (Think of the crippling late-inning misplays at SS during that stretch. If Craw had done nothing but come in late for defense, it could have helped.)

    Instead of sending Belt down, they DFA-d Rowand several weeks earlier?

    Hard to know. But what if…

    the composite effect of those moves was five more wins in August and early September? Where would we be in the races right now?

    Just sayin’.

  491. WTF? Upton just hit a broken bat solo HR. The bat completely snapped in two just above the knob. R U Kidding me?

    Snakes up 1-0

  492. dsf says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
    614..

    I guess, I am saying it is POSSIBLE to do A LOT, without too much payroll stress IMO. I’m also thinking Pujols/Fielder/Reyes don’t fit as well in the big scheme of things here in SF. Heck, even Kemp in 2013 is a ‘tougher fit’ IMO.
    ====

    I agree with you that the big expensive names aren’t necessarily the right solution for SF. We proved last year that WS Champs is possible with great pitching, good D, and offense that includes several bats hitting 20+ HR and good TEAM supporting O from others.

    I definitely think we need to strengthen the O, but don’t think tossing a huge amount out for a big name name works well in the budget when we have other weaknesses to fill and also have some rookie talent with bats that may be able to make an impact in 2012.

    I’m seeing 2012 as more of a TEAM year, with strong O contribution to support the pitching. 2013 should have some of our rookies developed into impact bats.

  493. Brave have Delgado going tomorrow VS Anibel Sanchez who has been on fire his last three starts. 0.86 ERA and .086 WHIP

    Delgado has been good but he has only gone 5 innings Braves bull pen is what is tore up.

    Braves are hurting for certain. leaking oil all over the place.

  494. Pirates making a valiant effort in the 9th. Should have tied it. Two outs, man on third. McCutchen at the plate.

  495. Presley triples with one out and gets stranded at third base.

    OUCH!

    Douche bags win 1-0

    Kennedy 20-4 who would of thunk.

  496. StLouis plays the Mets and the Mets have been playing good baseball.

    Mike Pelfrey Mets VS Edwin Jackson Cards

    Pelfrey has been ok especially last three but tends to give up runs and go 6 innings Lasst start 7 innings VS Was O ER but 2 UER on a error by David Wright Lost.

    Edwin Jackson 6 quality starts in a row which does not mean chit! last three 2 ER 6 innings. like a machine.

  497. Bad thing about the Cardinals Pujols seems to be in one of those grooves. They need to pitch around that guy with Holliday out.

    Only 1 game seperates them and the Giants.

  498. Biggest Game of the Season so far Tomorrow

    Timmy Time!

    Come on Baby! Bring it on home!

    BEAT LA! BEAT LA!

  499. @ channelclemente
    September 19th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    No CC. STL is on course. They and SF both have 9 games left with STL up 1 game. This is why I was looking for the Tiebreaker Info earlier. I have a really strong feeling that STL and SF could tie for the WC, let’s face it the Snakes have a magic number of 4 now, and it’s gonna be tough to catch them, although I am still hoping.

    If the tie does happen with STL the tiebreaker game would be in SF it looks like by virtue of SF head to head record of 5-2 over STL.

  500. We can not let Matt kemp beat us. With Ether out that is there threat thou Looney has heated up. and J Rivera has been good.

    Come On Lincecum!

    BEAT LA! BEAT LA!

  501. OMT if pitsburgh can beat them once and we sweep Dodgers we are

    4 out and play them 3 sweep them and its one game with magic number still 2 with 3 remaing and pressure and they play the Dodgers we have the Rockies who have laid down.

    Tomorrows game is huge.

    TIMMY TIME!

  502. I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days. OH yeah!

    Its all getting a little clearer now with only 9 to go Giant looking for 9 in a row.

    Tomorrow is the leg of the next 9 in a row.

    GO GIANTS! Its going to be bright, bright, sun shiny days. OH YEAH!

  503. ClutchUp says: September 19th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
    599..
    JD4SF:
    I can see why your hubby married YOU
    =========

    LOL Thanks! I think I got the better end of the deal – hubby of 40 years really is a keeper. 😉

    ==
    I should clarfy to the board I’m in no way an “expert” about baseball. I simply apply my background as tools when I’m trying to assess a baseball situation.

    I’m a short and long term planner by nature and experience, and addressing logistics is like a reflex. My years as a cop helped me learn to consider the less obvious, possible motivation, etc. My 30+ years in public safety incident response and other professional management level experience taught me to be prepared with a FLEXIBLE plan and qualified back-up resources as needed. And since a lot could literally mean life/death for someone, I place high value on solid skills development and team building, mentoring, good resource management, individual and team mental health, etc.

    Consider how that can apply to baseball, and folks will have a better handle on where I’m coming from.

    I’m not into doing a lot of stats research (more concerned with that player’s performance potential is NOW, because NOW is what goes into today’s game), and my decades as a recreational *softball* player certainly don’t give me the personal insights and baseball knowledge that many on this board have. Nor am I an historian … just someone who enjoys the game and never lost my love for the Giants of my childhood.

    But it sure was fun back when dinasaurs roamed the earth (my gkids’ favorite reference to my age) when I was still able to play SS – later 3B, 1st or pitcher – in co-ed softball rec leagues when I had a cannon stronger than most of the men (there are advantages to moving 120# hay bales!) and belted out some long ball RBIs! 😉

  504. TitoMac says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    I’m with you all the way on that!

  505. All the score board watching is brutal…..

    This is STILL all on bochy and sabean- they mis managed the roster and the team big time…..

    They have to win out to have a chance imo….

    But they do have a chance to win out …

    Come on Bucs….steal a few…

  506. —Byrnes is unlistenable. He has a Woodie for being aloud to go to the —Merryweather fight by Lee Hammer.
    —Byrnes said attending this fight was better than any World Series.
    —That’s the final straw.

    —Byrnes makes as much sense as does Tito’s hatred for Nate.

    —Wonder if Lee Hammer ever dares listen to Byrnes YELLING over the radio air waves…

  507. Lefty says:September 19th, 2011 at 7:57 pClutchUp #569 @ 5:31 p.m.: I always like your posts and was a bit bewildered by your congrats to anthillunda’s mean-spirited attack on mine early this morning.First of all, who cares what time I got up or if I ate breakfast? Do you also mock people who post in the middle of the night, or is it just early risers that bother you. (Not that it matters, but I had to be up early for work.). That was the mean-spirited part.

    @ Lefty, first of all when I cut and pasted that at 569 I did not KNOW I had latched onto that one piece redundancy at the bottom…in other words I don’t make a happen of attaching someone else’s thoughts then adding mine…then re adding his thoughts. So for that I apologize.

    —What was I trying to say? I was agreeing with NOT being able to go back and “What IF” any part of the season, rather than criticizing your ability to want to do that. For that I apologize.

    —Somewhere on HERE during these soon to be 700 posts JD4SF posted her thoughts regarding: What if Bochy had done this or what if Sabean had none done this. Her prose was much better than my post to Atilla regarding your post.

    —For that I am again truly sorry.

  508. Infante and Cody Ross…

    Both wear #13…

    Ross wore 13 last yr for the Fish…

    Infante this year….

    Sympatico…hmmmm

  509. ClutchUp says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
    —Somewhere on HERE during these soon to be 700 posts JD4SF posted her thoughts regarding: What if Bochy had done this or what if Sabean had none done this. Her prose was much better than my post to Atilla regarding your post.
    =======

    “prose” ???? LOL

    I think you’re referring to JD4SF says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
    #475

  510. Bochy’s Mock Lineup for Tuesday…

    CF/Christian -2B/Keppinger – RF/Beltran – 3B/Sandoval – 1B/Pill – LF/Belt
    2B/Cabrera – C/Stewart

    Lincecum

    Other possibilities:

    Huff vs Pill
    DeRosa in LF (ouch)

    Once into bullpen:
    Crawford
    Fontenot
    Burriss
    Ford

  511. Giants just have to run the table and hope for the best.

    MAVO – we need some luck.

  512. ClutchUp says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 11:24 pm
    668..
    Bochy’s Mock Lineup for Tuesday…
    ============

    I’m thinking Pill over Huff is likely.
    I don’t see DeRosa in the outfield – not his thing.

    You doubled Kepp and Cabrera at 2B … Panda will have a LOT of territory to cover! 😉

  513. JD4SF says:September 19th, 2011 at 11:34 pmClutchUp says:September 19th, 2011 at 11:24 pm668..Bochy’s Mock Lineup for Tuesday…
    ============I’m thinking Pill over Huff is likely.I don’t see DeRosa in the outfield – not his thing.You doubled Kepp and Cabrera at 2B … Panda will have a LOT of territory to cover! 😉

    —JD4SF—

    Bad brain cell night. Thanks for picking me up on my E668—

  514. ClutchUp says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 11:27 pm
    re: “prose”
    ======

    OK, I’ll confess to having some published work, so I’m not a rookie at putting thoughts together, but it never occurred to me to consider a blog post “prose” … LOL

  515. Bochy’s Mock Lineup:
    1 Christian CF
    2 Keppinger 2B
    3 Beltran RF
    4 Sandoval 3B
    5 Pill 1B
    6 Belt LF
    7 Cabrera SS
    8 Sanchez C
    9 Lincecum P

    Stewart still banged up, Whiteside terrible hitter and shaky behind the plate.

    Lineup vs. Eveland Wed:
    1 Torres or Christian CF
    2 Keppinger 2B
    3 Beltran RF
    4 Derosa or Sandoval 3B
    5 Pill 1B
    6 Belt LF
    7 Crawford SS
    8 Whiteside or Stewart C
    9 Vogelsong P

    Lineup vs. Kuroda
    1 Torres CF
    2 Keppinger 2B
    3 Beltran RF
    4 Sandoval 3B
    5 Huff 1B
    6 Belt LF
    7 Crawford SS
    8 Sanchez C
    9 Bumgarner P

  516. CB says:September 19th, 2011 at 11:41 pm
    Bochy’s Mock Lineup:

    —I like your mock Bochy lineup much better. I thought Stewart was better and KNOW Lincecum had preferred Stew over Whitey…

    —Fyi – I dont like Hector’s swing righthanded but Go Giants…I still think Cabrera will bat 8th…

  517. ClutchUp says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
    672..
    JoBu sitting on bathroom THRONE (sorry JD4SF)
    ========

    I’ll remind you I spent 8 years in a cop locker room and out arresting dirtbags. I’m not easy to offend. 😉

    Carry in some interesting reading material (or pictures, if that level is preferred) and anyone can spend time parked on the throne. I’ve been know to carry my laptop in so I don’t miss any of the game. LOL

  518. I could see Bochy being a dumbo and putting this lineup out vs. a lefty:
    1 Torres CF
    2 Keppinger 2B
    3 Beltran RF
    4 Sandoval 3B
    5 Pill 1B
    6 Cabrera SS
    7 Christian LF
    8 Whiteside C

    Stacking righties vs. Kershaw. Know him so well. That would be a terrible lineup where 3-5 are our only hitters. And because Keppinger is slumping at the plate as of late. But yeah. The lineup that should go tomorrow vs. Kershaw is this…
    1 Christian CF
    2 Keppinger 2B
    3 Beltran RF
    4 Sandoval 3B
    5 Pill 1B
    6 Belt LF
    7 Crawford SS
    8 Sanchez C
    9 Linecum P

    Maybe I go with Cabrera vs. Kershaw but he went 0-fer vs. Kershaw the last time we matched up righties vs. him. Only one to score was Christian got an infield hit, stole 2nd base and Pablo drove him in. The rest of the righties got dominated. It shouldn’t be about lefty vs. righty. It should be about keeping your best hitters in there and the lineup that is working.

    Pill should be only guy in there and catchers rotate. Hector caught Lincecum last time and they worked well together after getting acquainted, and with Stewart banged up, I’d rather have Hector at the plate rather than auto-out whiteside. Whiteside was the only guy in the lineup in our 12 run outburst who didn’t contribute, let alone get a hit. Even Cain, our pitcher got two hits. Whiteside needs to ride the pine.

    And Torres would get owned by Kershaw. He didn’t get a hit in our 12 run outburst either, but did draw two walks and scored a run. Still, rather have Christian there in CF and Belt in LF, regardless if it is lefty on lefty. Belt plays well vs. Dodgers. Lets go.

  519. Stewart still on day-to-day? Hope he is active again real soon so we have more options at C.

  520. wow, this thread huge-r than ever. Life sorta took over and hadda leaf for a few hrs. Great stuff from all–I have all the key bb info now from y’all. Thanks much.

    @OMT, +
    Hoping for at least a tie in WC, as u pt out:
    ——
    OMT says:
    September 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    Giants are:
    5-2 vs STL
    1-6 vs ATL
    9-6 vs AZ
    Tiebreakers look at head to head match ups first.
    ——-

    Based on those #’s, maybe the Phillies’s tankin w/ StL strategy will serve a dual purpose that ends up helping us, unintentionally?

    Cuz as @titomac pts out, StL will b playing the Mets, who r hot now.

    @avwh. #581, thx for synopsis of Baggs I-view.
    I hope SFG can improve this team enough to hang onto Timmy & Matt.
    Not surprised about Beltran, who seems AL-bound…but, as @channelclemente’s post on hitter’s performance vs fielding position played, DH might kill his bat, and that would b a real loss for bb. MadBum’s comment about how being deemed out of contention actually helped the guys relax and just play ball, reminds me of a key thought…

    The pressure is on ATL & AZ–they r leading, and they have something to lose.
    We have everything to gain, and nuthin to lose.
    It’s a good way to b.
    So, go Giants, relax, play ball, “let it go, let it flow”, and enjoy every minute of it!

    Signing off, and thx all for all the updates & analysis & ruminations on the future of this club (I’m still mulling it over until I learn enough to even comment)

  521. —Not sure the Giants can afford to sit a banged up or Tired Panda the rest of the way…

    —Pablo could wear a Lou Seal costume and still hit one out…

    —Per Beltran’s help Sandoval will hit one out left-handed sometime before this series is over – over that LOW left field wall at Vin Scully Stadium – Or – into the Bullpen.

    —Pablo’s ability to drive the ball to the OPPOSITE field has multiplied since Carlos has been with the Giants…

    —Panda’s reserve Ketones will provide the needed fuel…

  522. Arhhh, my phone word completion doesn’t agree w/ my typed words!!!

    Typo: leave, not leaf!

    Good night, and good Giants baseball to all

  523. I think cause Stewart got hit in the wrist and is day-to-day, he will not be in there and it hurts for him to swing the bat. That isn’t really a recipe for success vs. Kershaw, especially with a hurt hand makes matters even worse. And Hector caught Lincecum well in his last outing and we won the game. I don’t like Hector’s right handed swing either and his left is stronger like Pablo is better from left than right side as well. But still would rather have Hector in there. Cabrera will bat 7 and at SS. I just hope he doesn’t play two games in a row and sit Crawford down because there are two lefties going these first games. Crawford is hands down better defensively and he is starting to swing the bat better 2nd time around here in the bigs. Just look at his numbers improving and he had another multi-hit game. He probably be overmatched vs. Kershaw but I think Cabrera would be too, so I think you need to go with your best defender there in Crawford and bat him 8th.

    Lineup:
    1 Christian CF
    2 Keppinger 2B
    3 Beltran RF
    4 Sandoval 3B
    5 Pill 1B
    6 Belt LF
    7 H. Sanchez C
    8 Crawford SS
    9 Lincecum P

    Cabrerror-Huff on bench.

  524. JC says:September 19th, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    —I like Crawford in your lineup but it will be Cabrera. Regarding Bochy I am not going to Go there.

    —About one hour ago a friend of mine from the Giants said that the Giants ALMOST went south right about their biggest deficit behind the Snakes but that Bochy meeting Intervention was much LARGER than was printed in the media.

    —Bochy haters will either SKIP this post @ #682-ish or they will POO-POO whether my sources are real of phony. But either way for TWO yrs I have been posting that BB’s best skill is managing men of differing agenda’s (not in game strategy or lineups) My SOURCE said Bochy may have had more to do with the Rowand/Tejada departure than anyone else in the organization.

    —Believe what you want. Bill Walsh use to use Boxing/Prize Fighting Analogies as well as tell stories of Leaders of Men during World Wars. Most War Time Generals or leaders were not loved, they were just good at their one skill….

  525. 3.5 back from Atlanta and 5.5 from D-Backs. We win a tough one tomorrow and D-Backs and Braves both falter and then say Braves win on wed and D-Backs falter again. And we take care of business and sweep the Dodgers one game at a time. We enter the D-Backs series on a 11-game winning streak and will be 3 games back from Arizona and 2 games back from Atlanta with 6 games to play. Say we sweep Arizona and Atlanta loses 2 of 3. We are tied with D-Backs and tied with Atlanta in Wild Card and depends what happens with STL these next few games as well. It could come down to the wire. We need the Pirates and Marlins help this series. Fish are playing well, but the Pirates are not. Pirates need to take care of business tomorrow and we just need to sweep.

    If D-Backs split the next two games with Pirates and we sweep. We will be 4 games back with 3 games vs. D-Backs. We would then need to sweep the D-Backs to make it 1 game back with 3 left to play. They close the season out vs. the red-hot Dodgers, but we would be red-hot as well and facing a lowly Rockies team at home. We have a legitimate shot and Game 161 could be the telling story for a couple teams destinations this year. I just hope we win out and see what happens. We win out, we closed the season on a 17 game win streak. That would be unbelievable but we just have to be relaxed and focus on one game at a time.

    Can we be perfect? Our 9 game playoffs starts tomorrow. Round 1 vs. Dodgers. Need to win all 3 to move onto the next series vs. D-Backs in Round 2.

  526. Check that, game 162 will be the telling-tale again. I just hope the black and orange come on top and sneak in. And we would become the most dangerous team in baseball.

  527. BTW, ClutchUp, thanks for sharing the link to the 9/11 video on http://youtu.be/bxR1tZ08FcI
    Good stuff.

    I was at this 9/11 SF game, intentionally picking the date knowing the Giants would put on a great memorial. It wasn’t until after I picked that date that I realized we were playing the Dodgers.

    Hey, now that I think of it, I was at the game where the Giants STARTED their streak of wins! Must be good luck for them for me to be looking down on 3B in person, eh? LOL

  528. CB:

    —I too agree, I would prefer Crawford at SS, but I think Bruce will insert Cabrera in the 8 hole at SS.

    —I’m going to “choose” to call him (Orlando) Cabrera rather than your choice of Cabrerror BECAUSE I think we need any and all good thoughts moving forward in the right direction.

    —I really don’t care who plays for us as long as San Francisco is on the Front.

    —Kershaw will definitely try to shut down our running game. Christian will steal one bag and get picked off another…

  529. Bat Cabrera 8th then and hope he gets a hit or has game of his life vs. Kershaw. But Timmy has to do something offensively vs a tough Kershaw to keep the Giants pitchers 4 game hitting streak alive: Vogelsong (2 hits), Bumgarner (2 hits), Surkamp (1 hit and RBI) and Cain (2 Hits, including 2-run HR). Lincecum has some work to do on both sides, LOL.

  530. @Clutchup And I think if Bochy plays Cabrera, we will have him bat 6th or in his normal spot when he plays in the 7 hole. But most likely 6 with a lefty on the mound, especially if Belt plays vs. the lefty. Bochy will go with this lineup, b/c I’ve seen him do it before.

    1 Torres or Christian CF/R
    2 Keppinger 2B/R
    3 Beltran RF/S
    4 Sandoval 3B/S
    5 Pill 1B/R
    6 Cabrera SS/R
    7 Belt LF/L
    8 Sanchez C/S
    9 Lincecum P/L

  531. Cabrera is the worst hitter in the lineup when Whiteside doesn’t play, therefore he should bat 8th. But I just don’t see that happening. Bochy loves Cabrera even though Crawford has proven to be the better player all around and on both sides as of late. Crawford is swinging it better and having great AB’s. Maybe his improvement is a sign of good things to come and that he could be our homegrown, cheaper option at SS next season, until we develop someone better or a higher quality player SS wants to sign with us or come here.

    Anyways, get Lincecum 3 runs, we win the game tomorrow. We have to jump on Kershaw early, from the 1st inning.

  532. JC, I do not want Cabrera in that lineup either. He has been terrible on both sides for us since he’s came here. Really, we’ve won more games with Crawford playing before, during, and after Cabrera came here. Period!

  533. —Win One Game At a Time…

    —By the way Tito is either on night-time lock down or he has heard that the San Jose Mercury News has told Andy Baggarly that the 700th poster gets a free trip to the Post Season as Mike Murphy’s Roommate.

    —Good luck Tito, I know your at the keyboard trying to VET this all out like we all use to do on calling in to our favorite FM radio station trying to win Janis Joplin tickets at the Fillmore. That or a trip to meet Wolf-man Jack and his downtown BASEMENT radio studios.

    —I hope YOU win Tito. Not sure how Murph feels however…

    —Off to bed.

    —We notice now that Heavy Set Kate Smith “ran out of gargle” awhile back because her services are no longer needed…

  534. JC “But Timmy has to do something offensively vs a tough Kershaw to keep the Giants pitchers 4 game hitting streak alive:”
    =====

    Love it! And I don’t care how Timmy gets on base, it would be awesome to have him part of scoring a run against Kershaw. 🙂

  535. CB and JC:

    —Me either, but it’s Bochy’s Mock lineup I was attempting to come up with – sadly – not OURS…

    —I will root for YOU to be right, but not going to BASH Bochy once Baggs produces the starting lineup?

    —At this late date…will you bash BB or just root for the TEAM to win?

  536. ClutchUp says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 12:15 am
    693..
    —Win One Game At a Time…
    =========

    Bingo. And WHATEVER the starting line-up is, the entire team will be 200% ready to battle for a W with the Dodgers.

  537. ClutchUp says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 12:20 am
    696..
    —700 posts on its way….

    —WoW….

    —A new Cherry popping record for Extra Baggs….
    ========

    What IS the highest anyone remembers?

  538. Don’t stop counting. With no Post Game from Baggs, this blog will continue to grow until pre-game / lineup is posted. Hope all have a high speed Refresh!

  539. September 20th, 2011 at 12:02 am, JC says:
    We have a legitimate shot and Game 161 could be the telling story for a couple teams destinations this year.

    I hope you’re right!, because that’s my last “regular season” game of the year at AT&T. Hopefully not last of the season though! Last year, game 1 of NLDS, and game 4 of NLCS were awesome, and I had tix to game 6 of WS, but alas… I didn’t need them!

    I feel a Kershaw meltdown coming. Go Giants! Out

  540. ACK!
    ClutchUp!
    Can the “prize” the 700th post be traded for game tickets or something???
    LOL

  541. #701 OMT: I feel a Kershaw meltdown coming. Go Giants!
    ==========

    I am behind that 200%!

    I suspect the Dodgers are grimly girding up to topple the SF winning streak. It would be HUGE – not just in standings – for us to beat Kershaw.

  542. Kepler spacecraft: Launched March 7, 2007

    Kepler’s mission is specifically designed to servey a portion of our region of the Milky Way galaxy to discover dozens of Earth-size planets in or near the habitable zone and determine how many of the billions of stars in our galaxy have such planets.

    On Feb. 2, 2011 Kepler team announced they had found 1235 planetary candidates circling 997 host stars. The Kepler results included 68 planetary candidates of Earth-like size and 54 planetary candidates in the habitable zone of their star.

    The area of night sky the Kepler spacecraft is searching is easy to identify. Looking westward you need only to find the star Vega in the constellation Lyra. Vega is the second brightest star in the northern celestial hemisphere. Kepler’s viewing area includes the constellatios Lyra , Cygnus, and Draco.

    There is a website called Stellarium. It’s free, safe, and easy to use. It shows you, in real time, every star and planet in the night sky. You can set it’s viewing area to any city in the world.

    One of the cool features is it tracks every satellite orbiting the Earth. I have seen, with the naked eye, the ISS Zarya ( International Space Station ) 54 times. Sometimes for a few seconds (30-40) or as long as 6 minutes. It orbits the Earth at approx. 383 klm at a speed of 17,400 mph. Stellarium is a great tool for children as well as adults.

    I don’t watch much TV but some programs I like are Eureka, Warehouse 13, Alphas, Wormhole, NCIS, White Collar, and Covert Affairs.

    Music I like. Charles Mingus, Bill Evans, Modern Jazz Quartet, Beatles, Zeppelin, Police, Frank Zappa, DMB, The Decemberist, Incubus, Grace Potter, Portishead, Great Lake Swimmers.

    These are just some of the things I enjoy.

    In following these pursuits I have neither treated anyone like a jerk nor have I been treated as one. And since I joined this blog I have enjoyed my favorite pastimes exactly zero times. As in none. My fault.

    I share this with you because others have revealed personal thing about themselves as to covey to others how and why they think and say the things they do. So as to be better understood.

    I’m not leaving this blog because I’m thin skinned, too senitive. I’ve worked in the gaming industry for 33 years and I have had to deal with people at their very worst. Copious amounts of alcohol and losing one’s morgage payment do not bring out the best in people.

    I enjoy Andy’s writing better than any sport journalist in the country.

    And I enjoy very much the thoughts of many of you here on this board.

    I simply would rather enjoy doing things that bring me great joy without any grief. I’ve had simply too much grief this year to deal with any more.

    I will miss many of you, dsf (David) the most.

    Take care.

    vgf

  543. Sorry for not being more active on here lately. It is getting more difficult to sit at the computer and type!

    But I’ll be watching my beloved Giants you can be sure… as they try and pull off a real thrilling comeback from oblivion! Got to find a way to beat Kershaw tonight and take the rest one game at a time.

    I could not believe Upton hitting a broken-bat HR to win 1-0 for the Snakes tonight… and even then it looked as though a fan interfered with it at the wall .. .but the umps reviewed it and STILL called it a HR … watched that one and could not believe it!! I’ve only seen one other guy do THAT … BARRY LAMAR BONDS!! When things are going right for you like he Snakes now … you get all the breaks!! As I’ve said many times on here… luck plays a larger role in baseball than many realize.

    Of course the flip side of the Snakes luck is what happened to the Braves tonight! Chipper loses a high chopper in the lights that would have been the final out in bottom of the 9th … then Infante hits a walk-off two run HR off Kimbrel who is looking a little gassed lately!! As I have told people on here, one of Bochy’s greatest strengths is managing his bullpen so they are NOT gassed in September. Of course he cannot help it if one of our guys stabs himself with a damn knife!!

    So YES Pacman … we need some LUCK … some good ole Orange and Black Magic!!

    Go Giants … one at a time and lets see if the young Dbacks get a bit more tight as the weekend approaches!!

  544. Mavo I think a bigger focus should be on the wild card.

    How about Chipper Jones loseing a high chopper in the lights how rare is that, then with one strike left Omar Infante goes deep off Kimbrell NL relief pitcher of the year. to win.

    nOw that is a break that will break your back if your Atlanta

    Go try to figure this game.

    But when the stars are aligned for you they are aligned and when they are not they are not.

    9 more games to go hold on to your seat. We are in for a ride.

    We have not yet to begin to see the weird and wacky yet.

    GO GIANTS! BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE! I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days. OH YEAH!

  545. Vegas Giants Fan says: September 20th, 2011 at 1:20 am

    “And since I joined this blog I have enjoyed my favorite pastimes exactly zero times. As in none. My fault.”

    This is really too bad. I’ve really enjoyed vgf’s comments here and will miss his insights.

    However, I have to ask, why let some faceless, cyberspace J/As bother you so much? Consider the source and give their comments ZERO credence. I’m just sorry to see the J/As win is all and I’ll miss your posts.

    Good luck and we’ll keep the light on for ya in case you change your mind.

    Sincerely,

    PITA

  546. TitoMac says: September 20th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    “Mavo I think a bigger focus should be on the wild card.”

    Tito the only focus should be on winning games. That’s what it’s going to take to get into the playoff via either route. How would the Giant’s approach change if they were to focus on the WC vs the division? Answer: It wouldn’t!

    I hear what you’re saying as far as the WC is closer to their grasp, but the bottom line is just WIN!

  547. @ Lefty (appx #635 and #642): good posts, spot-on observations. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but many of us were calling for those same moves. As I always say to my good buddy Giants fans, “if I can see this from Atlanta, and far away from the clubhouse, how do they not see it!?”

    The fact that the season’s most extended slump (16-24 from 7/29 through 9/4) began when the team made significant changes in the clubhouse atmosphere and chemistry is not coincidence. The Cabrera in/Crawford out move had to be disappointing to our pitchers. If you need to upgrade over Tejada, DFA him and keep Crawford with Cabrera. If you bring in an OF who will play every inning of every game, get rid of an OF (Rowand…) at that same time.

    You are correct–AZ was much more proactive and sensible with their roster moves. Realizing SS was an ongoing problem they traded Kelly Johnson for TWO quality major league middle infielders.

    If Goldschmidt can jump from High A to the majors in one year, maybe we should take a hard look at Gary Brown for CF/leadoff next year. I doubt if he’s ready now, but he played three years of high-quality college baseball, he’s 23 years old…at the very least we need to let him seek his own level, not pre-determine where we think he should play in 2012.

    Good posts. Thanks.

  548. Yeah Giant PIta

    Welcome back on the Band Wagon.LOL

    Tell me about it cause

    I see bright, bright, sun shiny days.

    But I predict you will fall off the Wagon at least one more time and hop back on before its all said and done.

    BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE! I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days. OH YEAH!

  549. @ Vegas Giants Fan: I’m with GIANT PITA. Don’t stop bringing your comments and observations! There are a lot of knowledge, passionate yet pragmatic Giants fans on this blog. Don’t let the mindless slams of a few dolts/trolls deprive you of the joy of posting your opinions here. I hope to hear more from you in the next two weeks and during the off-season.

  550. Lefty & Totalfan, Pac TWC ALL

    Freaking Debbie Downers whinky little B’es quit all ready.

    chhheeeesssHHH!

    enjoy the game!

    buckle your seat belts and hang on.

    We are in for a ride these last 9 games.

    weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE! I can see bright, bright sun shiny days.

  551. Gary Brown has to be given a hard look next year. He will be 24 years old. He should have been fast tracked to AAA this season. What they are waiting for … I have no idea. I’m hoping he will be a July call up and never look back. You never know with Bochy and Sabean. If you wait another whole year he will be 25 and not a young prospect anymore. If he is as good as everyone says he is … he has to be in centerfield and leading off by mid July next year.

  552. @ 511 vgf

    +

    It would be nice to have a positive response method (thumbs up) as exists on other blogs.

    And agree, no need for a negative thumbs down response.

  553. well…..what do you know:

    fans are back on the bandwagon hoping for a miracle comeback.

    KERSHAW!!!!!!!

    he’s going to put you away

  554. whoa, 700+ posts! wow.

    Happy Lincecum Day all! Go get ’em Timmy Franchise, put a schooling on Kershaw and the Fodgers.

    Go Giants!

  555. after all those wins in a row and braves choking the wild card race to the st louis cardinals…

    total sad part of this entire race is that with a loss tonight and a braves win……it would be crushing and dramatically dash your hopes…

    its great to see you follow the team and being on the edge the last 10 games and praying for every possible thing to go right…..

    i give you credit …your team is so close but kershaw is going to make you angry

    go dodgers!!!!!

  556. all that work just to get within 3 games and then 5.5 games…..

    it’s all coming down on you tonight

  557. i thought they gave up 2 weeks ago with all those minor league lineups starting:

    this team is a joke; basically the minor leaguers got them back in the pennant race but it’s too little too late

  558. Here’s to hoping Vegas comes back in sometime, but I get where he’s coming from. I’m a M-F poster for the most part, the weekends I live my life. If I wasn’t stuck in my cube, I would be out doing things instead of blogging with you fine people…..

    Since someone Jeff Kented (he’ll go in Cooperstown in black and orange, but he is stained with the blue…..) me yesterday… I’ll do the same for you…

    Go out and enjoy the game…… let the PC go.

  559. Now all that being said, it’s time to Slay Clay…., Klobber Kershaw….. pick a winner…..

    The Franchise can’t go 0-4 against a division rival this year… can he?

  560. Truth -Drink should go to
    My new Vietnamese soup
    and pool place…Pho-Que!

  561. News report: Boras says Beltran considering returning to the Giants.

    Note to Scott Boras: Please sell Beltran to a team that he actually believes in and is willing to hustle in the outfield for. ‘Cause I don’t see him doing that for SF.

  562. Giants making it interesting. If they end up losing the div or WC just by a coupla games, Bochy and Sabes will be under severe scrutiny, and rightly so. Their intransigence in not dumping Rowand and Tejada much sooner while Beltran was hurt in exchange for Pill and you name another callup — Crawford, Christian, anybody — will be under a microscope. Clearly the return of younger players fueled this new chemistry and pop in the lineup. The blogosphere for weeks before 8/31 was calling for a major shakeup for younger blood, but nothing untill the last possible moment…

  563. Bochy’s comments in the Schulman article on Belt confirms everything. He won’t sit a season-long sucking vet (Huff) because of what he did last year and because he’s signed to play next year. Uh, are the Giants in it to win it, or just to play guys based on what they did, not what they’re doing now? I think we have Bochy’s answer…

  564. @I MISS POSEY Don’t mistake lack of hustle for lack of range in OF.

    Also, Beltran had a bad start with us with adjusting to here and then the injury, but he has come along great and has been a hitting machine for us and makes all the routine plays in the outfield along with some outfield assists. Granted, his range and defense doesn’t compare to Nate the Great’s but man, Beltran and Panda have been godsends in that middle of our lineup. It is just now that the other guys besides those two are contributing that accounts for our offensive rise and 8 game winning streak. Oh and of course of our pitching and bullpen getting back to full strength.

  565. Lincecum is due for a win. But it all falls on the offense today. It’s BEAT LA, playing at their house and battle of Aces again. Kershaw has had the upper hand based on 1 run difference in each of the ballgames. So if the Giants can be the one to scratch that extra run, I think we will come on top. But I am looking for more than scratching runs from our offense tonight. We need to ruin Kershaw’s Cy Young chances, beat up on our rivals and score early on Kershaw. Right from the 1st inning. Put a 2 spot on him and go from there. Timmy should take care of the rest.

  566. If our comeback run falls short, it will be too little too late because of some management decisions not to go younger sooner and start giving other guys opportunities and not putting the same guys out there that were struggling and expecting different results. It doesn’t work like that in baseball. You play the guys that deserve to play and our playing well. And it is about what have you done for me lately? not what you did last year or in years past?

  567. of course Boras is considering the Giants, he will keep all bidders in the race as long as possible, to drive up the price as high as possible. His goal is to make the maximum amount of money, over the longest period of time, because he knows this will be Beltran’s last big pay day.

    But in the end, Boras will be able to get a bigger, longer contract in the AL, where Beltran can convert to a DH when his knees start becoming an even bigger problem.

  568. CB

    shhh

    You are not going to be welcome on the Band Wagon!

    No Debbie Downers allowed.

    You ether are on or you are off.

    SOB!

    No Standing in the revolving door and freaking complaining!

    That is not what that revovling door was installed for.

  569. Dinero

    Why you so scared of what Carlos is doing?

    Back up and enjoy!

    cheeeessshhh!

  570. Stop! with the Beltran hate. This dude is banged up and is raking. .333 for the Giants and 5 HRs in a month in a half. He got off to a slow start too and is hitting .333 when it counts. Nate has 7 HRs for the WHOLE season. That’s why Nate is not nor ever will be a corner OF starter. His avg. isn’t high enough, he doesn’t slug enough nor hit enough HRs or RBIs.

    Nate’s defense is superior to Beltran in RF but who cares. Beltran is way above avg. offensively while Nate is barely average. RF is NOT a premier defensive position. You need boppers in your corner IF and OF positions and until Beltran arrived, we had Pablo and crap at 1B, LF, and mediocre offense in RF. Giants need offense – re-sign Beltran to 2 years $30M + option that vests for 3rd year IF Beltran either makes the All Star team in 2013 OR he gets 500+ ABs.

  571. Vegas_Giant_Fan:

    —Re-think your decision with the “same” aplomb of “who you are” (please)

    —None of us EVER get received/criticized the exact way we expect…

    —Besides “we” need you on here for your eclectic tastes – not just me/us talking ball….

    —In closing, Our Giants need you to stay strong in your personal life and by being a member of the “Baggs Bombardiers”….

    Give it some thought…..okay?

  572. I’m not hating on Beltran, what he’s been doing lately is unbelievable. The dude can flat rake, there’s no two ways about it. I hope he keeps it up the rest of the year, and I will continue to cheer for him while he wears black and orange. I just don’t see him wearing black and orange next year is all.

    if they could sign Beltran for 2 years, I wouldn’t complain too much. It would mean a lot less playing time for Nate and/or Belt, more than likely Belt, which would suck. Any more than 2 years would be a mistake in my opinion – which probably means it won’t happen, because Boras will more than likely be able to get 3-4 years with an AL team.

  573. @Woj, September 20th, 2011 at 11:21 am

    I agree with your entire post except for a little nit pick on one point: “RF is NOT a premier defensive position.”

    While I agree that RF is or should be a position manned by a power bat, the RF at AT&T is a different animal. It demands a plus defender to cover “triples alley” and play the brick wall/arches.

    If we do somehow resign Carlos, I think his best fit for the Giants is LF.

  574. Bochy said.
    “I don’t think that’s fair to Aubrey, to bench him after what he did last year,” “He’s signed to come back next year. He’s going to be one of our key players next year. You don’t give up on one of your players who’s going to be hitting in the heart of the order, not just this year, but next year.”

    I’ve always liked Bochy, but this statement is just plain insane. I have been extremely excited about where this organization is going, what with the pitching dominance and pitching future. I, like dsf and others, have back in the middle of the year looked at the payroll obligations on cots baseball contracts and seen the salary opportunities coming to fruition, by not offering more stupid insane long term contracts, and when those contracts will fall by the wayside to open more money up to give SFG’s legitimate chances at “improving” the club.

    I can also see playing Huff for an extended amount of time to get his $hit together, but to continually put him out there the whole dang year is ludicrous. LUDICROUS!

    I can also see giving Huff the benefit of the doubt next year early, but if he ain’t cutting it after a “couple weeks like Brandon Belt this year” then I’d show him a very nice pinch hitting role bench spot!

    Krush Kershaw!!

  575. I also don’t buy in to the “bopper in RF” formula 100%. Obviously it can be successful, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only formula, the only way to win ball games. Ichiro isn’t the typical “big bat no defense” right fielder, but I think we can all agree that he is pretty damn good at what he does.

    I also agree with PITA that right field at the Belle is a whole different story. I think the formula should be a bit different for the Giants, and that formula should contain quality defense in right field. Namely Nate. Then you get your power from other spots (in 2012, that will be 3B, C, hopefully a little 1B and LF).

  576. Dinero

    Your worried about Schierholtz playing time? Seriosly?

    What has he done in 5+ years that warrants we keep him?

    We need offense? NO!

    Giants have been searching for some outfield upgrade for the last 5 years Nate has been the main reason.

    Nate is getting very tired.

    This subject is tired.

    We are 9 games from the end of the Season and there are 2 shots for the Giants to get in. 2 and Atlanta is leaking oil.

    ENJOY!

    BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE! I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days. OH YEAH!

  577. OMT & rest

    Huff is one of our best hitters post Alll Star!

    hitting .270 avg .342 obp One of our best hitters lately.

    Only an Idiot would sit him down.

    Huff can carry this team for a month.

  578. Dinero

    Yeah slow down the Mariners winning too many WS

    PLEASE!

    Ichiro and I like Ichiro Nate is no freaking Ichiro EVER!

  579. Dinero

    That worked when Barry Bonds was here.

    Take a look around you see Barry Bonds anywhere.

    chhheeeessssshhhh!

  580. CB – Snarkk and many others have covered ALL the flaws of Bochy and Sabean regarding their love for vets and lack of love for our newbie’s.

    —As I posted at 1159pm last night – I still can’t play the “What If” game with all you that so choose. The article linked here (Henry Schulman-Belt-Bochy) does NOT say it all. The difference between how the DBacks handled their business is not really relevant because in coming from worst to first they had zero to lose.

    —Apparently those Bochy/Sabean detractors on here do not realize that there is no grey area. You win the WS in 2010 and you either bring back 99% of the same players or you blow it UP like Jeffrey Loria did with the Fish in 2003. Again as referenced last night near midnight, Bochy’s ability to “keep the current players” focused is huge right now during the final 9 games.

    —I suggest saving the “what ifs” for after the season because we need all Giant Fans, bandwagon or otherwise to think synergistically. All emotions of varied agendas…when harmonizing…can produce amazing results…

    —Predictably with the two big injuries + a 40gamer with Pablo the Giants were going to (as Neukom said) be SUSPECT (suspicious) going forward after all those EARLY season walk off/one run victories…

    —In their TOTALITY those injuries became TOO much with the type of skill set the Giants ball players were constructed with…

    —Ross-Torres-Huff type players are COMPLIMENTRY players on OTHER above average playoff bound teams, and YET those guys were MAJOR players for us in 2010.

    —WE do NOT get to Post Season in 2010 without the collapse of the Padres…

    —Maybe we “should have got to round one or two” instead of the WS and been eliminated so that the naysayers could have been CORRECT sooner and you could have conveyed all your expert thoughts sooner to Sabean and Bochy?

    —Very few GIANTS would START on any other post season bound TEAM. They got to where they were by sheer TEAM chemistry in 2010, timely hitting, Career or near career years from Sanchez-Huff-Torres, NEW great years from Posey etc…

    —Included in Schulman’s article were these words (below) from Steve Decker. Ya’ll can hate on Bochy-Sabean as much as you do but Decker’s words here are vested and steeped in MLB’s Front Offices everywhere regarding “what would you do the year after you won the WS”…(regardless of Vets failing)

    —Decker said: “Though fans wonder what Belt and the Giants could have done had he gotten 300 or 400 at-bats, especially with Huff and some of the outfielders struggling, Fresno manager Steve Decker said untested players are wrong to expect long auditions and need to get a hit, steal a base, make a good defensive play whenever they get the chance.”I tell the players that life is not fair and this game is not fair,” Decker said. “When you get your opportunity, you’ve got to take advantage of it. I lived that, so when I tell them that, I mean it.”

  581. I’m fine with Carlos in LF. Make sense. Carlos – please take our 2 yrs. $30M with incentive based vesting option for 3rd year. Carlos can make 3rd year vest at $15M per by making the All Star team in 2013 or earn it through some other offensivem inded incentive. Hitting .280? 25 HRs? 90 rbis? 500+ ABs, combo. of all? That’s it.

    Carlos wants a ring. He knows very well the arms in S.F. can help him earn one. Carlos knows Buster is real deal.

    If Carlos bolts elsewhere what about trading Cainer for 2 proven bats since he becomes FA after 2012? I am not optimistic Cainer wants to come back for 4+ more years to suffer under a perenially lousy offense.

  582. @tito September 20th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    C’mon Tito, I know his “stats” are better of late, but I watch all the games. ALL. Sometimes twice. Yeah I see all his “hits” and they are mostly when they don’t matter. With 2 outs, nobody on, etc, etc. Yeah he has been a bit better because there is finally a boot in his A$$, which is named Pill and Belt and DeRosa. But Tito be real. I actually feel the same way about Nate in many respects as you do, yet not all of them. So, I do somewhat get your points.

    BTW, DeRosa should never even be thought of in the equation for next year. Anybody here really trust those wrists?

  583. @woj September 20th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    +

    I was JUST typing my, “give Carlos 2 years at 30M with a 3rd year option post”! Ha!

    I thing Carlos turns Panda into a perennial .330 35-40 HR, 100RBI guy if he sticks around, if he already hasn’t.

    I’ll take Panda, Posey, Beltran as my 3-4-5 anyday!

    …but LF is better for Carlos.

  584. LEADOFF??? – F. Sanchez – Beltran(LF) – Panda – Posey(C) – Belt/Huff/Pill(1B) – Nate/Belt(RF) – Crawford if he hits .250 – pitching spot.

    Me likely!
    That lineup is going to win a lot of games in 2012 if it happens.

    Please don’t mention Dero in 2012 AT ALL. That almost made me heave my lunch.

  585. “I suggest saving the “what ifs” for after the season because we need all Giant Fans, bandwagon or otherwise to think synergistically. All emotions of varied agendas…when harmonizing…can produce amazing results…”

    Actually no, Giants fans have absolutely no ability to affect the outcome of tonight’s game. That is God’s prerogative, amazing results happen when one accepts this. The truth of the matter is, the eight game winning streak is even more fulfilling than the World Series title. It makes us hopeful today for good things to come, whereas past events, even good ones, are somewhat wistful.
    Thank you Lord, for all the blessings and the grace you so freely share with us.

  586. ClutchUp says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
    752..
    —They got to where they were by sheer TEAM chemistry in 2010, ===========

    Agree. And IMO that TEAM chemistry is what Bochy was trying to reignite when he put in the “B team” lineup against CO. Not just the players who were already on a roll, but the entire team needed to be riding the W wave as participants. THAT success took the TEAM chemistry to yet another level.

    So much of success in baseball is mental. (True of any team effort.) The more confidence there is in the ability to succeed as a team, the stronger the individual players are contributing to that team … resulting in a much stronger TEAM.

    “Together, we’re Giant” is particularly appropriate. It reflects the reality of how the TEAM was able to win last year, and includes the high value of strong fan support.

    Bochy was changing and rearranging all this season trying to find / create the chemistry again. (You can lead a horse to water …) The hodgepodge of players finally clicked, the spark roared into a massive flame, and we have an incredible streak going. Now his job is to try and keep that chemistry working, one game at a time.

    Today, we let the Dodgers know the GIANTS are in their park, and we’re not just there to play baseball … we’re there to win!

  587. —Try not to Let Burrell and DeRosa get away like Willie McGee and Mike Metheny.

    —I know both Burrell and DeRosa started with “other” teams but I would like to SEE the Giants organization offer Pat and Mark an opportuinity to begin their SF coaching careers. What they have to offer regarding the mental game and overall perseverance would be huge.

    —I know WHY McGee and Matheny chose to go back to their beloved Cards, but lets keep DeRo and Pat in OUR organization before somebody ELSE offers it to them + Pat is a local South Bay Original.

    —It’s TIME for Pat to give Fatherhood a try. His menu will be varied.

    —Keep Mrs. DeRosa also…

  588. ClutchUp says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
    760..
    —I know both Burrell and DeRosa started with “other” teams but I would like to SEE the Giants organization offer Pat and Mark an opportuinity to begin their SF coaching careers. What they have to offer regarding the mental game and overall perseverance would be huge.
    =========

    +++++++++++

  589. Knight2King1 says: September 20th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    “I suggest saving the “what ifs” for after the season because we need all Giant Fans, bandwagon or otherwise to think synergistically. All emotions of varied agendas…when harmonizing…can produce amazing results…”Actually no, Giants fans have absolutely no ability to affect the outcome of tonight’s game. That is God’s prerogative, amazing results happen when one accepts this. The truth of the matter is, the eight game winning streak is even more fulfilling than the World Series title. It makes us hopeful today for good things to come, whereas past events, even good ones, are somewhat wistful.Thank you Lord, for all the blessings and the grace you so freely share with us.

    —Your STUFF is too good to all of a sudden taken us FANS with our varied FAITHS or Lack their of and insert ALL OF US into your religious world.

    —I was raised CATHOLIC but consider myself lucky to have survived any type of organized Religon…

    —Baseball in and of itself can be a “religious-type-experience”. THE FAN frenzies experience can HELP those players on the field. I have witnessed and experienced that….first hand..

    —Boxers who invoke “thank you god” after they win a boxing match turn me OFF as GOD (he or she) cares for all competitiors not just the WINNER of the event.

    —And the So Called The Rainbow Man/John 3:16 in the end zone drives me crazy.

    —IMHO leave religion out of it…

  590. ok, I can’t let it go. I tried.

    @ Knight2King1 – the outcome of tonight’s game is 100% God’s prerogative? Really?

    So if that’s the case, why would the players bother taking batting practice? In fact, why not just go out last night and get plastered, show up to the game hung over, and have a go? If God decides anyways, then what difference does it make? Maybe they should all go up to the plate with pencils in their hands instead of bats. Doesn’t matter, God decides. Maybe we should just let Beltran rest on defense, and stay on the bench. Field 8 guys. Doesn’t matter, God decides.

    Or maybe God (assuming you believe there is such an entity, which I don’t) doesn’t really give a rat’s ass who wins a baseball game on 9/20 between the Giants and the Dodgers. Maybe He/She/It has bigger things to worry about, like the Apocalypse and what not. I mean, I’d like to think God hates the Dodgers as well, but somehow I doubt it.

    Can we just leave religion out of it please?

  591. @ Dinero Thanks, guess we “banged it out” around the same time..

    ….And besides…Jesus had to learn to be a fly ball pitcher even though the desert was like the Polo Grounds…the “infield” was too hard…

    …Lots of “switch-hitters” ALSO “on Team Apostles”…

    —Please its Baseball.

    —Use Not THIS Forum to prosthelytize…

    —I was “born-into” baseball from the womb, that IS my ‘religion’ as both sometimes the thought of either is TORTURE.

    —And PLEASE don’t use MY former POST as a jumping off spot…

  592. ClutchUp says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
    763..
    —THE FAN frenzies experience can HELP those players on the field. I have witnessed and experienced that….first hand..

    ========
    The Giants players have remarked on this. In particular I recall “FREDDIE, FREDDIE” roaring from the stands. Sanchez commented later in the interview how he heard the roaring fans chanting his name, and it strengthened his resolve to drive in the run.

    Yes, the fan frenzy is defintely noted by the players!

    That was May 6th. I was there for the Willie Mays 80th birthday celebration. [The only jersey I own is #24. No need to find a new “favorite player” every year when you’re already favoring the best Giant in history! 😉 ] I was roaring along with 42K+ other people – it was deafening! Freddie heard and responded with a critical hit, and we beat CO 4-3.

  593. [T]he only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.

    – the great Annie Savoy

  594. TitoMac says: September 20th, 2011 at 9:11 am 714..vgfgo climb back under your rock nobody cares.

    —Dear Tito:

    —Remarkably your recent STUFF had a feeling you have another “side to you” because some of your postings were less idiotic.

    —That said your uncalled for Post and negativity deserves a big BOO.

    —Clean it up to garner any respect, you hit ROCK bottom on what you said to Vegas and that says ALOT knowing what you post.

    —You cannot respond to anything said about you without attacking back. Shall watch and see…..

    Minus Sign (-) Ad infinitum (not that YOU would know what that means)

  595. Tito:

    “Huff can carry this team for a month”

    It’s Sept 20, 2011; what month were you thinking of – one of the months before the ASB last year?

    “Give Carlos $48M for 4 years”

    NFW. He can’t play RF now; imagine what his range will be defensively in 3 or 4 years???

    Baggs on KNBR again. Timmy has lost to Kershaw 3 times, 1-0, 2-1, and 2-1. Baggs says we’ll see an unbelievably motivated Lincecum tonight.

    He also said Reyes will cost $100M+.

  596. Oh how I love me some Annie Savoy…

    I believe in the Church of Baseball. I’ve tried all the major religions, and most of the minor ones. I’ve worshipped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan.
    —I know things. For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I heard that, I gave Jesus a chance. But it just didn’t work out between us. The Lord laid too much guilt on me.
    —I prefer metaphysics to theology. You see, there’s no guilt in baseball, and it’s never boring… which makes it like sex. There’s never been a ballplayer slept with me who didn’t have the best year of his career. Making love is like hitting a baseball: you just gotta relax and concentrate.
    —Besides, I’d never sleep with a player hitting under .250… not unless he had a lot of RBIs and was a great glove man up the middle.
    —You see, there’s a certain amount of life wisdom I give these boys. I can expand their minds.
    —Sometimes when I’ve got a ballplayer alone, I’ll just read Emily Dickinson or Walt Whitman to him, and the guys are so sweet, they always stay and listen.
    —‘Course, a guy’ll listen to anything if he thinks it’s foreplay. I make them feel confident, and they make me feel safe, and pretty. ‘Course, what I give them lasts a lifetime; what they give me lasts 142 games.

    —Sometimes it seems like a bad trade. But bad trades are part of baseball – now who can forget Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas, for God’s sake?

    —It’s a long season and you gotta trust it. I’ve tried ’em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.

  597. Dinero

    This country was born on Religion. Freedom of religion. Not freedom from religion.

    You athiest like to point out all the bad guys in religion but you tremble at the name of Jesus Christ. Why is that?

    But you go on and do Satins work. As he has called you and you are obeying. Not a problem.

    Just Know Jesus Wins this War in the end.

    Hallelujah!

  598. —Approaching 800…but doubt it will get there….

    —Baggs with Story and Lineup Soon…

    —Started “way back” on the 18th of Sept….

    —Many Superstitions will appear over these last 9 games…

    😉

  599. Corba,

    you know I heard that and thought it was a joke. Huff is a vet, he knows the value of Jobu and a good shot of rum with a Havana special.

  600. channelclemente says: September 20th, 2011 at 1:39 pm 775..

    CC: That story pulled all of THREE comments. Dodger fans come late and leave early.

    End of their fanbase. There are more thugs in the lot then fans in the stands…

  601. Anything over 5 for $90M and Reyes will not be a Giant……

    That’s my two cents…

    Oh, and no more than 2 for $37M for Carlos. Kick in a 3rd option year with a $3 buyout if you must to get it done. Carlos is guarenteed $40 for two years or $56 for 3. That’s how I would approach it.

    I think if Beltran comes back, which I highly doubt will happen give the club’s financials which from the outside look like a $134M payroll limit with $114M on the low side to $120M on the high side already committed and needing 3 or 4 guys to fill the roster. Backup OF, Starting CF, SS, RP and maybe one or two other depending on arbitration offerings. It’s possible, but unless the board is willing to take lower than a 13% return it isn’t going to happen.

    I basically think Beltran’s resigning is directly tied to the club making the playoffs. Not only for the political impeteus to motivate a resigning, but it very well maybe the budget will only go up to be able to allow Sabean to afford a signing like Beltran, will come in from playoff tickets and merchandise.

    I like Baggardly’s take on taking a run at Reyes, but I do think the FO is very hesitant going past 5 years, and Andy confirmed what I had long expected. Reyes agent is going to use Crawford’s contract as the starting point. That was 7 for $142M for those playing at home.

    I still think the clubhouse is only going to see a couple of patches (Crisp, Furcal) and no Carlos.

    I still think the FO should go get PUjols or Fielder and REALLY make a run. IF I have to drop over $200M, it’s going to be Pujols…..

  602. jimsan says: September 20th, 2011 at 1:42 pm 593..wow 215+ posts by ClutchUp

    —I was trying to win the Free Cruise with Kuiper during the winter. Winner was the 700th poster….

    —Now I am relagated to “see Russia from my back porch”…

    —I am bummed 🙁

  603. The only two Dodger ‘fans’ I care about are are Kershaw and Kemp. Kemp better remember, if ever has any hope of getting out of the tidy bowl and coming North to civilization, he better go 0 for 4 today.

  604. TitoMac says: September 20th, 2011 at 1:35 pm 773..DineroThis country was born on Religion. Freedom of religion. Not freedom from religion.You athiest like to point out all the bad guys in religion but you tremble at the name of Jesus Christ. Why is that?But you go on and do Satins work. As he has called you and you are obeying. Not a problem.
    Just Know Jesus Wins this War in the end.Hallelujah!

    —Ought oh, KNEW he was ODD but not in that way above. Lots of ethnic groups love their edgumacation and their religion.

    —Religion is big inside most institutions…..

    Love me some Annie Savoy…No that’s what I’m talkin’ about…

  605. avwh

    If Sabean put up with Moises Alou in right field. Carlos Beltran is a no brainer.

    The guy has won Gold Gloves in Centerfield. He has “IT” per say. When it comes to fielding in the outfield. His stride is long and lazy but he is covering a lot of ground at a very high rate.

    I do not have to prove nothing to you about Beltran. He is s o far in it is not funny. They are running promo’s of Carlos Beltran on KNBR clue #1 that he is 100% signed for next year.

  606. channelclemente says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
    776..

    Dilbeck’s take from the LA Times, if anyone had any doubt how Dodgerland feels about this game.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dodgers/2011/09/hoping-the-dodgers-crush-the-giants-playoff-bid.html
    =====

    Disregard. TODAY, “Together we’re Giant.” And we WILL beat the Dodgers.

    Besides, Dilbeck needs a dictionary. “… as if nothing in the baseball universe could ever diminish the loathing inherit in the Dodgers-Giants rivalry.” inherit instead of inherent. 😉

  607. ClutchUp says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
    782..

    —I was trying to win the Free Cruise with Kuiper during the winter. Winner was the 700th poster….
    =========

    LOL, I’ll pack the suitcase when I get the call from Kuip.

  608. Love me some Annie Savoy…No that’s what I’m talkin’ about…

    Well

    I hope you will love you some nashing of teeth for an eternity

    Grab Some HeII MEAT!

  609. Clutch, the number of posts is way down in Dodgerland also because they make them post via Facebook to monitor/control trolls. Way back when I had a guy posting there under my avatar and I pitched a fit with their IT department. They told me Facebook would stop that and erased all the phony posts. I notice thats an option many places and a req. in some.

  610. No Excuse me I think Barry Bonds played Left Field at AT&T

    GRAB SOME MORE HEII MEAT!

  611. Tito:

    BFD that Beltran has GGs in CF. Zito has a Cy Young and Tejada an MVP. We all know how valuable they are TODAY to the Giants. The same is true about Carlos in RF – not an asset defensively.

    Beltran today is only adequate in LF. In 3-4 years, you gonna put him at 1B and bump Panda or Posey or Belt?

  612. I thought Tito was in LF. Or are those just his thoughts?

    I don’t want Beltran back, unless it’s for 1-2 years and Nate plays RF.

    I do want Craw at SS next year.

    And Huff should, once again, become a chalk outline.

  613. STOP!

    Its TIMMY TIME!

    BEAT LA! BEAT LA!

    BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE! I see bright, bright sun shiny days. OH YEAH!

  614. JD4SF LOL, I’ll pack the suitcase when I get the call from Kuip.

    —Funny I all my screens/home and work it shows you at 699 and OMT as number 700…but you can still hope…

    🙂

  615. lineup:

    1.SF Giant
    2.SF Giant
    3.SF Giant
    4.SF Giant
    5.SF Giant
    6.SF Giant
    7.SF Giant
    8.SF Giant
    9.SF GIANT

    I know a lot of you would drop SF Giant to the 7 hole but this is the lineup i’ll be rooting for…one game at a time

    GO GIANTS!!!

  616. Tito….Doogy…Please…Read below….and Grab some Soap within the confines of the McGuire correctional facility:

    —In December 2004, he signed a one-year deal with the Giants worth $13.5 million, with a player option for a second year. Alou was expected to regularly play in right field for the first time since 2001, but due to injuries to left fielder Barry Bonds, he started most games in left field. Alou had stated that he would retire if the Giants won the World Series in 2005. They did not, and Alou exercised his option and stayed with San Francisco in 2006 season, hitting 22 home runs and 74 RBI.

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mois%C3%A9s_Alou

  617. HuffHuffPas

    You need to seriously. Move to Fresno and enjoy AAA baseball.

    This is the MLB BABY!

    No Volkwagons only Ferrari’s

  618. @ r-o-b-e-r-t says: September 20th, 2011 at 2:01 pm 795..lineup:

    I know a lot of you would drop SF Giant to the 7 hole but this is the lineup i’ll be rooting for…one game at a time
    GO GIANTS!!!

    Great Post +++ +++ +++

  619. And In 2004 moises Alou was retired.

    Tell Sabean came calling. And Daddy!

  620. ClutchUp says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
    796..
    JD4SF LOL, I’ll pack the suitcase when I get the call from Kuip.

    —Funny I all my screens/home and work it shows you at 699 and OMT as number 700…but you can still hope…
    ===========
    Weird!

    JD4SF says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 12:25 am
    700..
    Don’t stop counting. With no Post Game from Baggs, this blog will continue to grow until pre-game / lineup is posted. Hope all have a high speed Refresh!

  621. What has worried me about the Dodgers the last week or so isn’t only the head to head series, that’s in our hands and we got no one in control but us. What worries me is will the Damn Bums lay down in the series with the Snakes that ends the season.

  622. r-o-b-e-r-t and All

    Welcome back on the BandWagon, feel free when you need to scream and cry like a whinny little girl to use one of the two revolving doors. We will see you back on the next day or two.

    GO GIANTS! BLACK AND ORANGE TILL I DIE! I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days. OH YEAH!

  623. So we get the posts into the 700s and all of a sudden it’s the 700 club? Religion and baseball. Hahah what a funny thought. Reminds me of the padres. Man do they suck

  624. r-o-b-e-r-t says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
    797..
    lineup:
    ===========

    Perfect roster!

  625. I see Scott Boras is starting the mind games and setting the bar for the bidding wars on his clients.

    George Santanya: Those who don’t learn from past mistakes are condemned to repeat them.

    Oh please, baseball gods, no more 7, 5, even 4 year contracts on Boras clients. We have paid with Barry Zito & Aaron Rowand. No more!

  626. First of all – Beltran will not sign a 1 year deal. That would be an insult to Carlos and I’d actually agree with him.
    Anywhere from $30M – $36M for 2 years for Carlos sounds good. Team option for 3rd year with some modest buyout makes sense too.

    At this point, I’d rather have Carlos on a short term deal (2/3 years) than give away a vault for Reyes for 6-7 years. The last 7 years and last 5 year deal absolutely blew up in Giants face (Zito/Rowand).

    Note to Giants owners: You stink for dumping Neukom. You cheap petty fill in the blanks.

    You gotta spend $$ to make $$ through more titles. Sign Carlos!

  627. It’s ORANGE and black, you imbecile.

    As in Giants fans bleed orange, not black.

    Just like the Raiders are SILVER and black.

  628. wow…thx for the responses…

    tito, no thx…i’ll just continue to ride in my GMC van and root for the Giants MY way…

  629. HuffHuffPass says: September 20th, 2011 at 1:58 pm 794..I thought Tito was in LF. Or are those just his thoughts? I don’t want Beltran back, unless it’s for 1-2 years and Nate plays RF. I do want Craw at SS next year. And Huff should, once again, become a chalk outline.

    —-HuffPass: Exactly 😉 That’s what management “told me” the other day when they stopped by “my work furlough” group on 101 South near the 3rd ave exit….(sound familar Tito)

    —Also Fitz and Brooks “called me” and said KNBR’s creative design guy is running adds for Beltrans last three games, Dubbed: Say Goodbye to Carlos Weekend vs the Rox.

    —Fans will be given pink tissues at the gate, a Carlos Bobble Head Doll dressed in a generic American League Uniform and all Fans as well as Carlos and his family will be given a DVD of this….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUQypGrJCr4

    PLEASE NOTE THE WHINY DODGER FAN at end of video…

    PS Note: TitoMac aka Camotit….Management and You have never interacted unless its when they exhiled you from your bleacher seat for using your typical ghetto-type vulgarity.

    PSS: Show the same class as Carlos or last night IE Mariano Rivera when he broke Hoffman’s record rather than TELLING Vegas Fan to go crawl under a rock….Carlos the sure fire HOFamer but now 3-4 tool player will play in an AL park with tiny outfield configuarations so he does have to: (1) Dive (2) Go back on any ball (3) Sell out on any play.
    His next Huge Boras contract will allow him to persue a Rick Barry type hair plugg operation as he needs at least 1500 to redo the front of his noggin 😉

  630. Why would Beltran/Boras sign a 2-year deal?

    In two years, Beltran will be 36. He will be even slower, even more of a liability on defense. He may even get injured in that time and be done. Whereas if they find an AL team willing to give him 4 years, he is guaranteed to be set up until he is 38. And you can bet there are some AL teams willing to go there.

    So, to get Beltran, it’s going to take at least 3 years, probably 4 – which is a mistake for an NL team, especially one with a large, difficult right field.

  631. Dogs pathetic yard
    Hopefully inundated
    By LOUD orange and black

  632. Nate’s fan Mom

    “Those who don’t learn from past mistakes are condemned to repeat them.”

    You must mean Nate Schierholtz 1032 at bats 102 career rbi’s

    Is it any wonder when he is palying an rbi position we are constently looking for rbi producers. Is it any wonder. really now.

  633. Dinero

    Bank on it 4 years around 48-52 mill

    I can see bright, bright, sun shiny days. OH YEAH!

  634. KNBR in total disarray….

    http://richliebermanreport.blogspot.com/2011/09/tony-bruno-was-offered-knbr-show-source.html#comments

    Today Radnich aka (real name) Gary Radunich took a SHOT a Damon Bruce and KNBR….

    Kruegar told Radnich something about Aaron Rodgers once playing behind Brett Favre and typically RadRag cut him off and said “like what KNBR did to me”….and then he again typically said “kidding”….

    Radnich had that wondering eye for former KRON producer Alicia ______(maiden name) Radnich. Gary had the sweets for Pam Moore also. Raddy and Johnny the Goutman a security guard formerly from Hillsdale Shopping Center in San Mateo used to always talk that Soul Brother Jargon on GRad’s original show….Gary fancys himself as the White Frankie Beverly…. Poor “original” Mrs Radnich….Gary must have dumped her pre-menapause before his own bout with Prednisone made him look like Damon Bruce’s grandpa..

  635. you wish you had kershaw….going to punk your team tonight for good…

    he’s haunting you guys and you can’t do jack about it

    watch each and every player struggle badly tonight…..it’s what you bandwagoners get

    wooooo!!!!!!!

  636. Atlanta finishes with 3 against Philly, a big hill. But the Cards finish against the Cubs and Astros, which you’d think were pushovers. But both Cubs and Astros have split against them since the AS break. Add that to the fact the Cards draw that little show off Wandy Rodriquez for game one with the Astros, and the Cards road forward is no sure thing. Even on paper, if the Giants keep up this quality play, this starts to make sense.

  637. knbr is a joke….

    you got a bunch of commentators contradicting each other and whining and complaining about alex smith and the poor lineup of the giants:

    they only persons that are good at knbr are tom tolbert and damon bruce

    tom because he’s cool and actually is educated on sports and damon bruce because he holds players like alex smith and the warriors midget lineup accountable for their stupidity

  638. it’s gotta be painful watching the game tonight and not being able to have the giants fans cheer them on ……it’s hopless

  639. dodgers fans will be roaring and cheering and it’s gotta stick in your crawl knowing your team is fighting uphill and everyone is against them at the ballpark.

  640. Truth, its okay. We knew spelling was not high on the list….

    Been to Scottsdale….

    —No full time residents=SnowBirds…
    —Park has Roof on it…
    —Buck once walked Barry intentionally with Baggs Full…
    —Leashes needed for Scorpions and CockRoaches…
    —Fired Bob Brenly…
    —Fired Wally Backman four days after hiring him as HC
    —Fired Bob Melvin…
    —Once hired AJ Finch from their front office with ZERO experience…

    Yep we can see clearly now that YOUR Organization really really has a great tradition and history…

    Even that three legged half squirrel-half scorpion finds a nut once in awhile…Hope YOU went OUT smanging those good looking girls your dating at the same time. Carry your own penicillan…

  641. Dinero,

    I can not imagine why Beltran would ever sign with a NL team, given the state of his wheels. He’s got to be looking for 3-5 with the AL, anything else just isn’t smart, and Boras is smart. He also likes big market, so it’s most likely Chicago, Boston, or NY. It is concievable, depending, that the Angels take a run at him, I suppose, as well.

  642. gots to get me some of that truth drink…could use a good high…

    will watch all players struggle at the plate, duh, 2 of the best pitchers in BB going tonight!!!

  643. senstive giant’s fans targeting bloggers that don’t agree with their bandwagon comments:

    it’s ok…you are nervous and your team is gradually losing grip before it goes off fishing

  644. Wait..Is that a DBack fan talking about “bandwagons” They haven’t had fans since Curt Schillin and Gonzo started ROIDING

  645. you can talk all you want as your team game by game loses it’s grasp on being the reigning champs

    steriod field champs

  646. Truth said: tom because he’s cool and actually is educated on sports and damon bruce because he holds players like alex smith and the warriors midget lineup accountable for their stupidity…

    —You like Tom because he’s cool?

    LOL = you = 18-26 yrs old…..

    Please don’t father any children…

    Tolbert is good because:
    (1) He tolerates the other guy
    (2) His total sports knowledge could carry a show SOLO
    (3) But Barboonish has the “goods” IE Photos on the brass

  647. dbacks won before the giants did……expansion team won before them…plus i am not a d’backs fan for the 1000th time….

    just pointing out before you guys talk trash about them

    bow down …..they won before you did bioootches

  648. My 10 year old son asked me last night if I thourght Mariano Rivera was the best closer Ever?

    I said does he have a beard?

    Son says ‘No”

    There you go then.

  649. Do the DBacks even have baseball fans??? I thought it was just a place for the yuppies to go swimming

  650. Mariano is the BEST.

    Wilson needs to do it for same amount of yrs but will not.

    Rivera = cutter = long career

    Wilson= slider = short career

  651. Truth…What kind of loser trolls around a baseball message board??? Go back to inflating up your girlfriend

  652. again comment 835 is too stupid to read that I just said tolbert knows sports. He didn’t bother to read other part of the statment:

    just another giant’s fans looking to bash someone that doesn’t agree and won’t bow down to the minor league giants

  653. truth not a AZ fan??? oh, is he a Giants fan?…tito??? just a new name…same old story!!!

  654. clutchup:

    these fools can’t handle criticism of their own team:

    love it how wilson is being put on the active list like they are cool and have him ready to help them. it’s laughable

  655. channel

    Yeah exactly why he ruled them out at the trade deadline.

    but again I am the Idiot

  656. here’s a concept bochy……..

    play the guys you have been playing cuz your veterans haven’t done jack to get them back in it……

    of course……sandoval the guy is ripping it up …

    the same guy you all were calling fat and useless and looking to package in a trade last year

    typical jerk losers traders backstabbing fans

  657. overheard on the radio as I was making money that fitzgerald wants to start a fund to get reyes from the mets and some other guy.

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

    was that the dream he had last night???????

    here’s an idea…….try to reup one of your hitters batting .200

    better chance of that happening

  658. Giants should sign Albert Pujols:

    albert pujols and sandoval and the rest

    pitchers:

    lincecum and Cain

  659. gotta keep posting folks…still at least an hour to crack 1000…

    did anyone check out that site vegas mentioned, stellarium?…actually pretty cool if your into that stuff…

  660. hooters on bascom avenue to party during the giants loss tonight

    see you there

  661. i will be there with a dodgers hat on and 2k in cash

    the amount I won in vegas betting against the giants when the slid away from the pennant race 2 weeks ago

  662. @Clutchup/Dinero/ titomac/hawk/xootsuit etc. etc, you are the person who suggested that if Giants fans rooted together, amazing results can happen. That means you believe your thoughts can affect the outcome. They don’t. That may seem the same as praying, but it’s not. Christians pray for God to manifest his will and to accept the results, whatever they are. God may or may not care about the results of a sporting event. If he doesn’t, you shouldn’t either. You’re worshipping a false idol.
    Furthermore, I don’t think you really care about the Giants either. You’re under the false impression that you’re a shaman who pocesses magical powers. Your only interest is to make it appear that you can affect the outcome of a sporting event by your willpower. You can’t, you are a deceiver, who does BTW have the ability to attach spyware to unsuspecting people’s computers and to hack into websites and e-mail accounts. You also have the power to create various sock-puppets, like a “retired lady cop” or someone suffering from Lou Gehrig’s Disease. What is your backstory here? Aren’t you a physicist working at Lawrence Labs in Berkeley? They must not be keeping you busy.
    TYJmL&S

  663. Reference to / Supporting earlier posts on TEAM effort and all payers contributing … and particularly the mental aspect …

    Some player quotes from the latest Chris Haft article on the SF Giants site include:
    *we’re playing with a lot of confidence right now
    *good momentum
    * I think we’re just feeding off each other

  664. Knight2King1 says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    854..
    You also have the power to create various sock-puppets, like a “retired lady cop”
    =========

    Time out!
    Your attack on others is also insulting my integrity.
    I am nobody’s puppet. My thoughts are my own.

    I tend to THINK before I post.
    It appears not everyone here does that.

  665. @ ClutchUp September 20th, 2011 at 2:41 pm,

    To add to your list of below average Phoenix area features:

    -Little League games played at night to avoid heat stroke
    -Must have 24hr emergency AC service phone number tatood to body
    -Must have rock and cactus landscapping in your yard
    -Monsoons in the summer cause you to need a liferaft in the trunk of your car
    -Skin cancer removal is a rite of passage

    The list could go on forever!

  666. some all time stats:

    other names dodgers played under, Robins, Supebas, Bridegrooms, Grooms, Grays and Atlantics…Founded 1884

    Giants…Gothams…Founded 1883

    Franchise Totals
    Runs: LA-87,974 SF-91,893
    HR’s: LA-11,498 SF-13,638
    BA: LA-.262 SF-.264
    ERA: LA 3.53 SF-3.55
    HOFers: LA 46 SF 55
    WS: LA-6 SF-6

    65 Franchises have folded, only 8 since 1900…all 8 folded in 1915, most of the 65 only lasted about 5 years, many less.

    just some stuff…lol

  667. Hmm, and this from the SF Giants twitter:

    Torres cf, Keppinger 2b, Beltran rf, DeRosa 3b, Pill 1b, Cabrera ss, Christian lf, Stewart c, Lincecum p

    Go figure

  668. @ clemenete…

    Regardnig Beltran…

    Angels are getting Morales back and he figures to DH with his surgically twice repaired wheels.

    Boston’s possible since Big Papi is up, but I don’t see him landing there unless the Papi is in pinstripes. I don’t see that likely…..

    Someone mentioned Chicago, but logic would dictate they would have to do something with Dunn first, It is possible they could let Carlos play RF for a year or two, move Dunn to 1B when Konerko’s contract is up and then DH Beltran. It’s possible…..

    Looking at the Bombers outfield, and DH situation, the Yanks make much more sense. And rumor has it, he never sold his apartment in NYC.

  669. TruthDrink says: September 20th, 2011 at 2:52 pm again comment 835 is too stupid to read that I just said tolbert knows sports. He didn’t bother to read other part of the statment:just another giant’s fans looking to bash someone that doesn’t agree and won’t bow down to the minor league giants

    —TD: Try not to flatter yourself. I read your entire post. But your Tom is educated AND Cool….was indicitive of your age and pea brain..

  670. Knight2King1 says:
    September 20th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    @Clutchup/Dinero/ titomac/hawk/xootsuit etc. etc, you are the person who suggested that if Giants fans rooted together, amazing results can happen. That means you believe your thoughts can affect the outcome. They don’t. That may seem the same as praying, but it’s not. Christians pray for God to manifest his will and to accept the results, whatever they are. God may or may not care about the results of a sporting event. If he doesn’t, you shouldn’t either. You’re worshipping a false idol.
    Furthermore, I don’t think you really care about the Giants either. You’re under the false impression that you’re a shaman who pocesses magical powers. Your only interest is to make it appear that you can affect the outcome of a sporting event by your willpower. You can’t, you are a deceiver, who does BTW have the ability to attach spyware to unsuspecting people’s computers and to hack into websites and e-mail accounts. You also have the power to create various sock-puppets, like a “retired lady cop” or someone suffering from Lou Gehrig’s Disease. What is your backstory here? Aren’t you a physicist working at Lawrence Labs in Berkeley? They must not be keeping you busy.
    TYJmL&S

    WoW know what popped into my mind?

    —David Koresh @ Waco Texas
    —Jim Jones @ Guyana

  671. TruthDrink says: September 20th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
    hooters on bascom avenue to party during the giants loss tonight
    see you there

    —Truth – Say No more

    (1) Partying “on a school night” – TUESDAY
    (2) Bascom Ave in San Jose…LOL…tremendous Neighborhood…
    (3) Hooters = LOL

    Classy guy you are….excuse me….young 18-26 yr old boy….whose favorite word is smanging…LOL

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