Judge gives early win to FSU over ACC as lengthy lawsuit hearing in Leon Court ends
Florida State University vs. the Atlantic Coast Conference. Round II.
FSU's request to dismiss the league's lawsuit was denied last Thursday by a judge in North Carolina.
The decision puts the focus now in Leon Circuit Civil court, where the first hearing between the pair in Florida is scheduled for Tuesday at 9:30 a.m. in front of Circuit Judge John C. Cooper.
Tallahassee Democrat sports writers Jack Williams and Liam Rooney are attending the hearing and will be providing live updates.
Next hearing
Monday, April 22 at 9:30 a.m. at the Leon County Courthouse.
WATCH LIVE:FSU vs ACC lawsuit heads back to Leon County court
Lawyers to discuss what's next
Cooper asks the lawyers to discuss if we go until 5 p.m. or schedule the rest of the hearing for another day. The two sides have seemingly agreed to have another day of hearings in the near future.
Critical points Judge Cooper has made in FSU-ACC lawsuit
- The ACC's anticipatory filing against FSU was a form of forum shopping
- Believes that motion to stay in Leon County should be postponed.
- This case isn't a local concern but a state concern and one for all states with ACC establishments.
- He sides more with FSU when it comes to the grant of rights being ratified by the board as FSU is an entity in Florida. However, Cooper is "troubled putting signature" on FSU's argument on the grant of rights. Cooper said FSU didn't "win" that.
- Discovery issue unruled on until motion to dismiss.
Cooper: "[ACC's] Anticipatory filing is a form of forum shopping"; believes motion to stay should be postponed
To refresh, forum shopping is the practice of choosing the court or jurisdiction that has the most favorable rules or laws for the position being advocated.
It sounds like Cooper believes FSU filed for a lawsuit first and the ACC's filing was anticipatory. He said that's a form of forum shopping.
Cooper says the motion to stay must be denied, says he is more persuaded by the argument of FSU and highlights the 'taking of the media rights' in air quotes.
He thinks there are issues of sovereign immunity and whether FSU can be sued for breach of contract in another state, and if it can be determined under the other state's laws.
He says the state of Florida has a significant interest in this case.
Believes these issues are not a local concern, but a state concern, not just for Florida but all of the states with ACC members.
Judge Cooper deciding on motion to stay. No ruling yet
Today's hearing will be going until 5 p.m. and there could be another hearing the week of April 22. Cooper has cited a handful of past rulings, similar to this case. Most of them have to do with forum shopping.
10-minute break
Cooper said that he would rule on the issue of priority following the break.
Update: 10 minutes has become a half hour.
Update: Cooper is back out at 3:37 p.m.
ACC legal team questioning why FSU is upset over agreement
Rush closes out FSU's time by saying that the university is "being held hostage" by its current media rights.
ACC legal counsel is up now questioning why FSU is upset over the grant of rights agreement. After the school signed the agreement in 2013, it still accepted payments and "can't pretend it didn't sign the contract."
Cooper responds that would be a good argument if the ACC was looking to get that money back from FSU.
"They're treating us like we've been withdrawn"
Rush has leaned into how FSU is being left out of major decisions by the ACC. FSU was not in attendance for the January 12 meeting and was not included in the conference's decision to sue Clemson.
"They're [ACC] is treating us like it has already withdrawn," Rush said. "We're still part of the ACC."
Rush claims that ACC violated own laws
University of Virginia president James E. Ryan's letter following the January 12 Board of Trustees's meeting has been a hot topic today. Rush is claiming that the ACC violated its own rules at that meeting according to the letter.
Rush referenced Ryan's letter where he said "We didn't ever need that kind of a vote."
Rush claims that the ACC never voted to ratify the lawsuit.
Rush says it's an Ultra Vires Act, which is when a corporation, in this case, the ACC, exceeds the power it was given by law.
He added that FSU's Board of Trustees never approved the grant of rights.
"This document [grant of rights] would not be brought in front of the Florida State University Board of Trustees," Rush said. "They knew that in 2013."
FSU lawyer Rush calls for future of case to be held in Leon County
Since the two property litigation takes place in Florida, that being FSU's home games, Rush says it makes sense for the future of the case to be held in Leon County.
Sovereign immunity is the phrase that's been thrown around. That is the fact that the government cannot be sued without its consent. Rush said waiving sovereign immunity in one state, but not another in a case like this is "chaos."
Rush cites that FSU joined the ACC far before North Carolina passed its law that waives sovereign immunity for those who sign contracts like the ones discussed today.
FSU legal team hammers way on importance of ESPN contract
The ACC legal team mentioned earlier that FSU was not concerned with the ESPN contract. FSU's legal team hammers away on how important that is in this hearing.
FSU legal representative Peter Rush said the only way FSU can see the ESPN agreement is with someone in the room with them asking if the person viewing the contract is writing the contracts down "verbatim."
Rush also claimed that the contract only applies to members who are in the conference.
"They [ACC] want to take the next 12 years of every home game Florida State plays," Rush said.
FSU's legal representation is speaking a little bit more passionately about all of this than the ACC's legal representation. There's a strong sense of urgency from Rush.
Court resumes
ACC legal team says that the conference filing a lawsuit first and getting a ruling in court first is equal to jurisdiction in North Carolina. Roche vs. Cyrulnik was the case that was cited by the ACC legal team.
FSU legal team now speaking for the first time today.
Lunch break
Court will resume at 1:10 p.m.
Cooper continues to challenge ACC's point of hearing rulings outside of Florida
Forum shopping continues to be the major point of Cooper and the ACC legal team. The ACC has institutions across the southeast, but Cooper asks why rulings from North Carolina should apply to schools in different states.
ACC legal team argues that since the conference operates out of North Carolina its members should abide by North Carolina legal decisions.
Court resumes, Cooper agrees there was 'enough' for ACC challenge FSU
Court has resumed after a 15-minute break. Cooper said while there isn't any language in the grant of rights saying FSU can't sue, but there is enough for the ACC to challenge FSU via a lawsuit.
The discussion has now shifted to media rights, which are no longer retained by the ACC at the end of 2036. If FSU leaves the ACC unless purchased back by FSU or another entity.
ACC rep notes that FSU can leave ACC for $130-$140 million dollars whenever it wants, but won't retain media rights.
Grant of rights, media contract under discussion
ACC legal teams say FSU would owe "130-140 million dollars" and a year's notice if it wants to leave the conference. There is also a discussion of what media rights would look like, pertaining to playing "classic" games like "The Choke at Doak."
These are two separate contracts and Cooper is currently reviewing the grant of rights. Now taking a 15-minute break to review the documentation. Lunch break is expected at noon.
Public records laws in Florida focal point to ACC missing information
Cooper references Florida's public records laws and how it's an exception to many states. In Florida, all state, county, and municipal records are open for personal inspection and copying by any person.
The ACC's legal team referenced an ACC Board of Directors meeting that happened on January 12, but there was no information pertaining to who was in attendance, due to North Carolina's public records laws.
ACC also did not know that Clemson was filing a lawsuit due to North Carolina's public records laws.
"What other reason is there to file suit to get a better forum in the state of Florida," Cooper said.
ACC legal team says that North Carolina is a better forum as the judge there was the "first to file."
Forum shopping main reference point by Cooper
Cooper has brought up multiple times forum shopping, which is the practice of choosing the court or jurisdiction that has the most favorable rules or laws for the position being advocated.
It has been an hour since Cooper entered the courtroom and are still on the topic of whether the ACC legal team should be allowed to refer rulings outside of Florida.
Cooper noted that FSU is suing for "breach of contract."
ACC legal team arguing ruling of past, similar cases should apply here
The ACC legal team is referencing past court cases and is asking that the ruling from those cases should be applied to this lawsuit, known as comity of principal.
Cooper does not agree with the ACC's legal team and is pulling up paperwork as to why those rulings shouldn't be applied in Florida court.
Cooper said that he would like to have the hearing done in an hour and a half, but doesn't want to limit either party and has "his entire day open."
There really has not been a lot of arguing so far, but a lot of pauses by Cooper to reference materials.
Hearing begins
It is now 9:40 a.m. at the Leon County Courthouse. Circuit Judge John C. Cooper has entered the courtroom. He has granted the motion of discovery on the documents from the North Carolina case.
Adds that the documents should not influence the proceeding hearings.
Why is FSU suing the ACC?
FSU and the ACC are in a legal dispute over the league’s Grant of Rights, an agreement in which schools agree to transfer their media rights to their conference for a set period of time (2036 for ACC schools).
The Seminoles believe they should be allowed to leave the ACC without penalty, saying it would cost $572 million to exit the conference. The ACC's suit seeks to uphold the Grant of Rights.
Jack Williams covers Florida State athletics for Tallahassee Democrat. Contact him via email at jwilliams@tallahassee.com or on X @jackgwilliams.