‘Your World’ on inflation fears, US crime

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Republicans tap into inflation fears amid Biden spending push

Fox News congressional correspondent Chad Pergram has the details on 'Your World'

This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," May 24, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

CHARLES PAYNE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: A new poll finding Americans are spent, as prices spike, all as the White House pushes to spend more. Can Americans' wallets afford it?

Welcome, everyone. I'm Charles Payne, in for Neil Cavuto. And this is YOUR WORLD.

We have got FOX team coverage with Chad Pergram on Capitol Hill, where Republicans are tapping into those inflation fears, and Peter Doocy at the White House, where the spending push is on, despite those fears.

We begin with Chad.

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Charles.

Well, Republicans have seen polling indicating that Americans are worried about spikes in inflation. That's why Jim Banks, who leads the Republican Study Committee in the House, crafted a memo encouraging the GOP to tie inflationary fears to President Biden.

Jim Banks isn't the only one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RONNY JACKSON (R-TX): And we're just not in a position anymore in this country to continue to spend trillions and trillions of dollars of our kids and grandkids' money on this kind of garbage to support the social agenda that the left is pushing right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: Now, the GOP cites the $1.9 trillion COVID bill Democrats passed in the late winter and concerns about a possible infrastructure package.

A recent White House memo noted that it -- quote -- "will take some time to sort out when it comes to supply-and-demand issues," but was skeptical of long-term inflation.

Now, the Banks memo says extra unemployment benefits might devalue the dollar. There's worry Democrats may have overplayed their hand, dumping so much spending into the economy with the coronavirus bill. Expect GOP members to talk with their constituents about inflation as they meet over the holiday weekend -- Charles.

PAYNE: Chad, thank you very much.

Now to the White House, Press Secretary Jen Psaki today saying that the ball is in the Republicans' court in the push for more infrastructure spending.

To Peter Doocy at the White House with more on that -- Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Charles, good afternoon.

The White House a few weeks ago made up a deadline for progress on infrastructure, Memorial Day, but now hopes for actually making progress by that self-imposed deadline are fading, as White House officials are coming out to say that, so far, they have been a lot more flexible than their Republican partners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The last counteroffer that came from the Republicans came up -- just came up $50 billion. So, our concessions went 10 times as far as theirs. So, the ball is in their court. We are waiting their counterproposal. We would welcome that.

We're eager to engage and even have them down here to the White House, once we see that kind of proposal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: And the big hangup now is how to pay for another spending bill.

And even though Democrats chopped a few billion dollars off the bottom line of their original proposal, it is still too rich for Republicans, a very important group to consider, as the White House claims they want the way forward to be bipartisan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): They have got to trim down the bill. At $1.7 trillion, you're still going to have to have the largest tax hikes in American history to pay for it.

They refuse to cut spending anywhere else. And this is critical for our nation's future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: And this chopped-down White House offer, $1.7 trillion, as it stands right now, is still way bigger than what Senate Republicans are talking about.

They're more in the $600 million to $800 million range. And that would be a package stripped of things the White House wants, like childcare provisions and paid leave -- Charles.

PAYNE: Yes, it sounds like they're going to have to circle back more than once on this one, Peter. Thank you very much.

So, with two-thirds of Americans already seeing prices skyrocket for things like meat and chicken, do we really need more spending that could continue to fuel inflation?

With me now, market watcher Scott Martin and Democratic strategist Laura Fink.

Scott, let me start with you, because the market reflects this kind of anxiety and fear all the time. We both see it every single day. And most people on the street see it getting worse before it gets better.

SCOTT MARTIN, FOX BUSINESS CONTRIBUTOR: They do, and rightfully so, Charles.

I mean, I think the main issue with the spend is not so much that it's out of control, which is really bad, don't get me wrong, is the fact of what it's doing to the U.S. dollar, and then the underlying value of things like you mentioned, whether it's chicken, lumber, drywall, cars, all the things that we buy in our daily lives.

The destruction of the U.S. dollar, because by all this printing that the government's doing now, especially in the Biden administration, the fact that they're just destroying the value of it, is really what's driving up the prices of everything.

It's really not, say, your father's or grandfather's inflationary story. It's not too much money to chasing too few goods. It's shutting down the economy, telling us how to operate as business owners and as producers, therefore producing less because the government's on our back, and destroying the very means of currency that we use to buy that stuff.

So, if they keep printing more of something, like the U.S. dollar, for example, yes, that's going to devalue it and drive up the cost of things we buy.

PAYNE: Right.

Laura, I see you shaking your head.

Let me just -- before you jump in there, because I see you're pretty eager here, one thing people do know -- and you don't have to be an economist -- is like how far your paycheck stretches, right?

And one thing I am concerned about, and it's part of this conversation, real hourly wages, your wages minus inflation. Last month, wages were up seven-tenths of a percent. That's huge, but real hourly were unchanged. The month before that, they were down eight-tenths of a percent, the month before that, down one-tenth of a percent, the month before that, down two- tenths of a percent.

When real wages are dropping like a rock, and it's supposed to be an economic boom, I think that's a serious political liability for your party.

LAURA FINK, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think dropping like a rock is one way to characterize it.

I would say this. Right now ,there's demand for workers. Wages should go up because employers should start paying more to get people in the jobs, first of all.

Second of all, I think these fears of inflation are overblown. I -- if you don't listen to the White House, if you are on one side or the other politically, listen to the Fed. The Federal Reserve has said explicitly that this inflation is transitory because of pent-up demand.

People were worried during the pandemic. They weren't buying the cars. They weren't -- certainly weren't traveling. And now that pent-up demand has caused certain hot spots of small bits of inflation. But, overall, I got to say, you wouldn't stop you -- we shouldn't stop spending on infrastructure.

We have got to get that deal done, because it's been decades since we have invested in our infrastructure.

PAYNE: Yes.

FINK: And so looking at short-term hot spots of small inflation should not stop us from putting millions of people back to work and getting childcare for the millions of women that are on the sidelines because of the lack of it during the pandemic and beyond.

So, all those are really critical to be competitive with China, to upgrade our broadband.

PAYNE: Right.

FINK: Look, you wouldn't amputate your leg because you were afraid of stubbing your toe. And that's what shutting down infrastructure is, in fear of inflation, with nearly no evidence.

PAYNE: Yes.

OK, look, let me just jump in there, because, well, there is evidence. The Federal Reserve is afraid. Transitory is not the same as saying -- as that there's no inflation.

FINK: That's right.

PAYNE: They're hoping like crazy that it's only short-lived.

So everyone knows there's inflation. Everyone watching this show who's been to a supermarket knows that there's inflation. That's number one.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: Number two, yes, we want infrastructure. Why did the Democrats cut out real roads and bridges? Why did they cut out spending for that?

FINK: Cut out?

PAYNE: Number three, just to get back to your point, I will let Scott -- I will -- yes, with the latest revision.

Also, the most important thing here? And, really -- I mean, and this is not -- it has nothing to do with politics. We are seeing where a lot of people were paid not to work. And I'm telling you, Laura, I think this is going to be a problem for your party.

FINK: Well, pay them to get back to work. Raise those wages, Charles. Let's raise those wages.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: And that money kind of helped inflation go up.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: You know, here's the thing, Scott. It's easy to say raise wages.

MARTIN: Yes.

PAYNE: But, really, for a small business, which is paying more for their materials, right -- I'm a homebuilder. I have got three trucks and then maybe a 20-person crew. And now the price of lumber has gone through the roof, and you're telling me to pay more wages?

I might as well stop the business, Scott.

MARTIN: Oh, yes.

FINK: Yes, demand is through the roof too.

(CROSSTALK)

FINK: ... houses, you're going to make more money.

MARTIN: Oh, Laura, come on.

You're going to pay more taxes, more regulations. And the government says, hey, we have got an unlimited supply of money via the printing press in D.C. and the Treasury Department.

FINK: They're not printing more money. That's ridiculous.

MARTIN: So, we can just print all this money and hand it out on every corner and demand that businesses pay more, because we can just print all this money in D.C.

FINK: Or maybe you don't like bridges, you don't like roads, you don't like airports, you don't like broadband?

I mean, these are -- these have been kicked down the road for decades.

PAYNE: Everybody like those, Laura. But you're doing the bait and switch here.

FINK: Well, let's get it done. Let's get it done, Charles.

PAYNE: You're doing the bait and switch here.

You're talking about -- you're talking about making permanent $300 a month, reinventing the great welfare society, which disincentivizes people to go to work, which encourages...

FINK: Did I say that?

No, what I was saying is, inflation is transitory.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: That's what is in the bill. That's what is in the bill.

FINK: It's not what I'm saying.

No, but I do want childcare for women to get -- because full employment with women is really important to get women back in the work force, which you ask any economist from the right or the left, that's important to being in competition with China.

PAYNE: Everybody would love to see women get...

MARTIN: How about get the kids back in school?

PAYNE: By the way, I invite you to read a piece by Jason Furman -- Jason Furman, President Obama's top economic guy, on what's really going on with respect to women.

We don't have time to go over that. But I will -- real quick, Scott 30 seconds.

FINK: I will look to a guy named Jason to find out what's going on with women.

PAYNE: At some point, at some point, at some point, at some point, will this have a deleterious impact on the economy?

Because the dollar is getting to the point where I think it's going to start sending off red flares.

MARTIN: It already is, Charles.

And the best elixir, the best medicine for this economy is for the government to get out of the way and let small businesses ,big businesses, local businesses...

PAYNE: All right.

MARTIN: ... to operate as they should.

If this economy is that great, let them do it. Why are they getting involved?

PAYNE: We got to leave it there.

Yes, Jason Furman is a guy. A woman worked on the report as well. The numbers don't change, no matter who the gender is crunching them.

Thank you both very much for a lively discussion.

Meanwhile, major U.S. cities on the edge of violent crime sprees, and it keeps -- it keeps going up. In fact, there was another deadly weekend. And what everyone's wondering is, what is really driving this and how, how do we stop it?

We have got former NYPD Commissioner Howard Safir. He's next.

Also, later, Montana's Republican governor was the first to get rid of those extended jobless benefits to get people back to work. Well, it's been three weeks. We're going to see if it's working.

Greg Gianforte is coming up. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: You're looking live now at New York City, nearly 30 people shot across the city over the weekend. And it's not the only city where crime is surging.

FOX News' own Aishah Hasnie is in New York with more on the spike officials are saying -- Aishah.

AISHAH HASNIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Charles.

I have been covering this crime story for more than a year now, and things just continue to get worse because of weekends like this past weekend. Take a look at the numbers here, just tragic, 22 shootings across the city from Friday through Sunday, injuring at least 27 people, Charles, including a Manhattan federal prosecutor.

Yes, she was hit by a stray bullet in the face while she was eating at a Thai restaurant on Friday. Shootings year to date in the city are up 81 percent. Chicago, though, wow, Chicago had a worse weekend, where nine people were killed and 38 people injured by gunfire there.

The victims include a 15-year-old boy who was shot in the head while just sitting on a front porch. Gunfire, Charles, is up in several major cities across the country. But pressure continues to mount on police. In Saint Louis, for example, which, by the way, has the worst murder rate in the country right now, the Democratic mayor there is trying to defund the police by $4 million and shut down a city jail.

And here in New York, New York's attorney general, Letitia James, now pushing the Police Accountability Act. If it's passed, it would limit police officers' discretion, their ability to use excessive or deadly force, while making it much easier then to prosecute officers who do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK BROSNAN, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: The reality is that this is yet another example of the scorched earth warfare against law enforcement and the rule of law. What will happen now is officers will be further paralyzed, more reactive than proactive.

They will be hesitant and there will be fearful of reprisal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASNIE: And Charles a police union is warning that what's going to happen because of this is that New Yorkers at the end of the day, they are going to suffer the most from this -- Charles.

PAYNE: Absolutely. Thank you so much.

So, what's fueling these surges in violent crime?

I asked the Detroit Police Chief James Craig for his take earlier on my show on FOX Business, "Making Money."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CRAIG, DETROIT, MICHIGAN, POLICE CHIEF: Crime is up in L.A., one of old homes, and the chief talks about a rise in gang violence, and then he says and some other factors.

What's conveniently left out, those other factors, defund the police, the morale in these police departments because they don't feel supported, this qualified immunity, eliminating it and the impact that has on morale and attrition rates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAYNE: Well, I want to get the read from former New York City Police Commissioner Howard Safir.

Commissioner, this is a story across the country, large cities, even smaller cities, the numbers are astonishing. I would imagine that there's more than one driver, right?

HOWARD SAFIR, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: There's more than one driver.

But what's happening, Charles, is, we're listening to the loudest voices from Antifa and Black Lives Matter, and we're ignoring the general public. We're ignoring the 362 police officers who were killed in the line of duty last year.

I am very angry and very tired of listening to this. The silent majority has to stop talking, because we are back to the bad old days. I and my colleagues and the 40,000 police officers in New York City made it the safest large city in America. Now it's back to being one of the most dangerous cities in America because we are limiting the ability of police to do what they do.

And that's disgusting, quite honestly.

PAYNE: I have read over the weekend -- and I was a little shocked -- an article in The New York Times that suggested that maybe this is backfiring.

You have cities like Los Angeles, which is now trying to hire more officers. You have other places where there's a sort of admission. They're not coming out -- to your point, no one's saying it's been a mistake. But there's starting to take actions like bring on more police.

And, I mean, no one wants to live in these kind of towns. No one wants to live in a city that hearkens back to New York in the '70s and '80s.

SAFIR: What's going to happen is, police work is a calling. You come to police work, not for the money, not for the adventure. You come to police work to serve the public.

But if you're constantly going to be vilified, and you're going to be limited and expose, your family and your finances, with the end of qualified immunity, nobody's going to want to be a police officer. Why be vilified when you're trying to help somebody?

What's going to happen now is, we're going to get to a point where the streets are so unsafe, that the public hopefully within the next elections will elect people who are going to clean up the streets. This is ridiculous.

It breaks my heart.

PAYNE: Yes.

SAFIR: I spent all my career and many, many years in New York, working 24 hours a day, 365 days a year to help clean up that city. And we made it a beautiful, beautiful, safe city.

Now look at what was happening in Times Square. Look at what's happening. Have you seen the streets of Los Angeles?

PAYNE: Yes.

SAFIR: They look like a tent city covered those garbage. And there's nobody enforcing the law. And what's going to happen. Police are going to become blue flowerpots.

They're not going to do anything assertive. They're going to save lives if they see somebody getting hurt. But crime is going to go out of control. As you can tell, I'm not happy.

PAYNE: Real quick, before I let you go.

And I feel everything that you're saying. In the New York City mayoral race, it feels -- it's sort of interesting to see Eric Adams, who was a police officer. Initially, I guess he was a critic of the police force. But now he's actually moving up in terms of polling, as he's talking about supporting the police.

Is that the kind of change you think we could see around the country?

SAFIR: I certainly hope so.

Eric Adams and I had a lot of differences. But he was a cop. He was a police officer. He knows how to reduce crime. So I would hope that somebody like him would be elected in every city. I mean, if you look at Portland, you look at Seattle, they have ceded those cities to terrorists, domestic terrorists.

PAYNE: Yes.

SAFIR: And it's a terrible, terrible thing to see.

PAYNE: It certainly is.

Well, I appreciate -- as a New Yorker, I appreciate everything that you have done, and we all appreciate the sacrifices all the men and women in law enforcement make for us. Thank you, sir.

SAFIR: Thank you.

PAYNE: So, vaccination or termination, is that the choice Americans are facing as more and more companies mandate shots? And, if so, is it even legal?

But, first, FOX exclusive videos showing migrants at the border rushing in. Meet the Texas sheriff telling the White House to figure it out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Montana was the first state to cut off federal extended jobless benefits in hopes of getting people back to work. So, is it working?

Republican Governor Greg Gianforte is here with an update.

And we're back in just 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: FOX News capturing exclusive videos showing migrants running from border agents over the weekend.

FOX News correspondent Bill Melugin is with us in Rio Grande Valley, Texas, with the very latest -- Bill.

BILL MELUGIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Charles, the Border Patrol agents down here, they're frustrated. And they will tell you that themselves.

They're stretched incredibly thin. They need more manpower. They can't be everywhere at once. And this new video just highlights that problem. We will show it to you right now, remarkable exclusive footage caught by our FOX drone team yesterday here in La Joya showing dozens of migrants just rushing the U.S. border, crossing illegally and running away from Border Patrol. They are not turning themselves in.

You're going to see it's mostly adults, mostly men, no kids there. You will see two of the guys are actually already handcuffed together. And then a single Border Patrol unit in a pickup truck is futilely trying to chase them. He's completely outnumbered as these migrants scatter all into a field and run in all sorts of different directions.

He's trying to follow in that truck. The migrants eventually, some of them go off in the area of a stream, a culvert. They jump into it. Some cross it. One border agent is on foot trying to track them down. One migrant gets stuck in the water.

But you see video of other migrants continuing on. One tries to scale a wall. Ultimately, Border Patrol units did end up catching up with part of that group. We saw them take into custody about 15 to 20 of them. But the rest of that group, it did appear they got away and escaped into the brush.

But this happens constantly down here. Take a look at this video we shot this morning also here in La Joya. We saw another group of migrants running away from Border Patrol yet again, this group running into brush. This time, they were spotted by Border Patrol more quickly.

Border Patrol brought a helicopter over. They were able to pin some of those migrants down. Some of them got away into the brush. But Border Patrol ultimately was able to apprehend two men we saw them take out of the brush in handcuffs. And they took them away, but again stretched very thin.

Senator John Kennedy, he has some harsh words for the Biden administration's constant insistence that the border down here is closed. Take a listen to what he said on "FOX & Friends" this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): The Department of Homeland Security has announced that the border is closed. But they lie like they breathe. I mean, I don't mean to be ugly, but they lie like they breathe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELUGIN: And border agents down here will tell you one of their biggest frustrations is, the cartels will have family units come across to distract their agents. Their resources get sucked up.

Then the people who don't want to get caught will run across, and they don't have the people to catch them immediately.

We will send it back to you.

PAYNE: Wow.

Bill Melugin, amazing video. Thank you very much.

DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas reportedly saying that the Southwest border is closed. But do images like this tell a different story?

I want to bring in Jackson County, Texas, Sheriff A.J. Louderback joining us to discuss.

And also, by the way, we did reach out to Secretary Mayorkas and so far have yet to hear back.

Sheriff, we thank you for joining us, though.

These images are no -- not sure they're news to you.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: But they're shocking -- thank you.

They're so shocking. We keep seeing them. And to Senator Kennedy's point of view, we're told one thing, but what's really happening on the ground is something astonishingly different. Tell us what you're seeing.

A.J. LOUDERBACK, JACKSON COUNTY, TEXAS, SHERIFF: Why deceive the public, Charles?

Why does the U.S. government deceive the public? We have historic numbers. We have a huge influx, yesterday in Del Rio, Texas, 538 alone in one day in Del Rio, Texas. Today, there's well over 200 that are massed there today, chases every day. Every day, we're having chases.

I mean, it's -- I just don't understand why we're going to deceive the public in the face of tremendous data and video that tells a different story.

PAYNE: Right.

LOUDERBACK: I don't understand.

PAYNE: It feels like maybe the White House is so focused on always winning the public relations war, or whatever it is, in any of these things, because the media generally helps them win those things.

But, to your point, detentions in April at a 20-year high, 178,000, when you -- when those numbers roll off my lips, they're almost unfathomable, I mean, 178,000, 20-year high. And it's the strain on services, the strain on the folks down there trying to hold it together. How do they even keep -- I mean, we tip our hat to them, but how do they even keep it going?

LOUDERBACK: Well, how long it's sustainable, Charles, I don't -- we keep our head up, for one thing.

We're going to keep doing what we do here. We -- doing right is never going to go out of fashion with law enforcement here in the United States. We're just trying -- we're faced with a federal government simply trying to manage and accommodate, instead of doing what Americans want. And that's end it.

Let's end the situation that we have gotten ourselves in to by policies from the Biden administration. No, the laws haven't changed. The policies changed. I saw it earlier, earlier last week, where there was a long TV hit on how the law has not changed.

And, no, the law hasn't changed, but the policies certainly have that have caused this.

PAYNE: Yes.

And it's also just the perception, right? I mean, I read an article in The New York Times where it says: "President Biden promised more humane approach to immigration than President Trump."

For The New York Times, essentially, that may sound like a great sentence, but to the rest of the world, it sounds like, hey, if you didn't get here, you're in. And they're trying to get here.

And, listen, I don't blame anyone for wanting to get to America. But it's a disaster on all sides.

Sheriff, we always appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK)

LOUDERBACK: Thank you, Charles. Thank you.

PAYNE: All right, we will see you soon.

Meanwhile, here's something else you got to take a look at. We're watching this. So, imagine being on a plane. You're sitting there. You see fighter jets out your window. They force the plane to land, and all at the direction of a foreign nation out for revenge.

Now the White House is demanding an international probe after Belarus just did that exact thing.

Going out now to FOX News's Benjamin Hall. He's been following it all from London -- Benjamin.

BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Hi, Charles.

And the CEO of Ryanair has called this state-sponsored hijacking and state sponsored piracy. And, effectively, it was all at the whim of this dictator Lukashenko, who grounded the plane, so he could get his hands on a journalist who had long been a thorn in his side.

This Ryanair plane was only briefly over Belarus while traveling from Greece to Lithuania, when it was intercepted. It had 171 passengers on board, including Americans, when a MiG fighter jet demanded it divert to the capital, Minsk.

In a bizarre twist, the Belarusian authorities claimed there had been a bomb threat from Hamas. Now, when the plane landed, opposition journalists Roman Protasevich was arrested. And video has now appeared on social media in which he admits he played a role in last year's mass protests in the country.

But political prisoners in Belarus have often spoken about confessing under duress and torture. Protasevich now faces the death penalty.

Secretary Blinken today tweeted, in part: "We strongly condemn the Lukashenko regime's brazen and shocking act to divert a commercial flight and arrest a journalist."

Lukashenko is a close ally of Vladimir Putin and his actions raise further questions about the wisdom of lifting sanctions on Nord Stream II. The Russian gas pipeline would run straight through Belarus and greatly enrich the dictator.

E.U. leaders have met just in the last hour and have called for more sanctions on the country as a result. They have also said that Belarus can no longer use E.U. airports or E.U. airspace. The U.K. and Sweden have said their planes cannot fly over Belarus. But, still, the question remains, as long as he is so close to Vladimir Putin, what can change Lukashenko's methods here, Charles?

PAYNE: Benjamin Hall, thank you very much. What a crazy story.

So, can companies really tell workers to get the shot or get out? What all Americans need to know.

And Montana, well, they started at all. Now 24 states are doing it, getting rid of those extended jobless benefits to get folks back to work. So, is it working?

Well, we have got Montana Republican Governor Greg Gianforte here. He will let us know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Well, another company telling its employees to get the shot before getting back to the office.

To FOX Business' Lydia Hu in Plainsboro, New Jersey, with the latest -- Lydia.

LYDIA HU, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Charles.

When the University of Pennsylvania health care system issued this policy last week, it said that about 70 percent of its employees were already vaccinated, and now the remaining 11,000 workers have until September 1 to get the vaccine.

Now, they join a short, but growing list of other companies making similar policies. Most of them are health care providers, but also on this list is Delta. It's requiring vaccines of its new hires. Now, lawyers say these types of vaccine mandates are -- issued by employers are generally on solid legal ground, especially in a health care setting.

This means that employers can probably use their disciplinary proceedings in order to enforce these mandates, which could include termination for an employee that does not comply. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN TROUTMAN, FISHER PHILLIPS LAW PARTNER: The employee says, no, I don't want to get vaccinated, the employer has the right to say, well, you can't come to work here, and we can only give you a certain amount of time off.

And then, if you don't get vaccinated, you're not going to be able to be employed here anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HU: Important to note here, Charles, that a mandate must also include exceptions for religious observances or health reasons.

But I also want to add that I'm hearing from a major health care union that represents thousands of workers, from nurses and nurses aides and lab techs across the country, just within the past hour, and they tell me that they oppose these types of employer mandates, although they also generally encourage their members to get the vaccine.

And that really underscores the tension here, because, although these mandates might be legally permissible and enforceable, it doesn't mean that companies that are issuing them won't get sued by employees that say, hey, this is an overreach, this is a violation of my right to privacy in my health, or possibly it's discriminatory in its application.

So, as we move forward here, we could see this unfold more in the court system -- Charles.

PAYNE: Right.

Lydia, thank you very much.

I want to get to read from our legal eagle today, attorney Katie Cherkasky.

Katie, I -- we just heard what Lydia had to say. But I also read where states are getting involved, states like Alabama, where they may try to make it where employers cannot take these sort of courses of action and certainly wouldn't be able to have adverse outcomes, like firing people or denying them promotions.

Where are we on this legal spectrum?

KATIE CHERKASKY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Right.

Well, it's very complicated, needless to say, because the coronavirus has really kind of exceeded the legal landscape, if you will. So the law hasn't really caught up in all ways how to deal with this.

But it's -- but, for the most part, employers can absolutely mandate the vaccine. There's really nothing stopping them from doing so. The question is, should they do so? Because, as the reporter mentioned, this is going to be a huge problem with lawsuits and unions speaking out against it.

So, practically speaking, is it really a good business idea? They can certainly do so, because there's nothing that prevents employers from making certain conditions of employment, except, of course, for religious or disability purposes, which are already regulated by the federal government for.

But, yes, it's an interesting time, needless to say.

PAYNE: Right.

If you're a pregnant woman, and you're hesitant, and your company says, well, it's still a vaccine or no vaccine, that sounds like it's a serious legal issue for the company to me.

CHERKASKY: It very well could be, but it would have to go through that litigation process, because, on its face, an employer can, in fact, mandate that, except for, of course, observing disability and religious exemptions, and things of that sort, which they're already required to observe.

PAYNE: Yes.

CHERKASKY: So, in terms of vaccination requirements, it's probably going to be initially upheld, until it gets determined to be too far.

But, at this point, it's more of a question of should they, whether can they?

PAYNE: Right.

CHERKASKY: It's kind of clear on that end of it.

PAYNE: It certainly is a can of worms.

Katie, thank you very much.

Well, Montana was the first to do it. Now 23 other states are ditching extended benefits to get folks back to work. Is it working? Well, we have got Montana Republican Governor Greg Gianforte. He's here. He will let us know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: More than 20 states dropping those extended unemployment benefits, but the first to do it, Montana.

And guess what? The state's Republican governor says they are starting to see signs that the move could be paying off.

Montana's Governor Greg Gianforte joins me now with an update.

So, Governor, tell us -- tell us what's happened since then.

GOV. GREG GIANFORTE (R-MT): Well, Charles, good to be with you.

We have had a terrific response. We were paying people to stay home, which was appropriate during the midst of the pandemic. And, as you know, we were the first state to remove these supplemental benefits. And we have just heard from all sectors.

Two quick anecdotes. I had a hotel owner here in Helena, Montana, who hadn't been able to find workers for months. In fact, the manager was cleaning rooms and doing laundry himself because he couldn't get anybody to apply.

Within a couple of days of us removing the supplemental benefits, they had 60 applications that single hotel. Another paint contractor in Bozeman, Montana, hadn't been able to find anyone for months. Within two days after us removing these supplemental benefits, six applications.

Montana's open for business, and now we're getting people back to work.

PAYNE: Yes, I mean, I did the math, and I don't know if the data is right, but 510 bucks the state unemployment, $300 from the federal. If the if the per capita income was $31,000, that's $42,000.

I mean, it's -- I mean, when you hear the media say that it was a heartless move on your part, that you, that Republicans are denying these folks who are out of work, what do you say to that? What kind of pushback do you give against this? Because, ultimately, you're helping the small businesses and these people to do -- pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

GIANFORTE: And you're right, Charles. We were paying people $42,000 a year to sit at home.

And unemployment is a safety net. And we need it. It should be there for the people when they hit a rough patch. But, as I have said many times, it should not be a career choice. And we were incenting people to stay home, instead of getting back to work and, in the process, removing the satisfaction that comes from working hard and being self-sufficient.

We want to give people the dignity of work. We have plenty of jobs.

PAYNE: Right.

GIANFORTE: And it's time for people to get back to work.

PAYNE: Governor, tell us about the bonuses, because there's a little something extra in there now, isn't there?

GIANFORTE: Yes, there is.

We did three things. We removed the supplemental benefits, going back to the benefits that we had pre-pandemic. We reinstituted the search-for-work requirement. And then we took some of the American Rescue funds, working with our legislature.

If you were on unemployment May 4, and you go back into the work force, work for a minimum of four weeks, you get a $1,200 bonus. Again, we wanted to remove the non-work bonus and replace it with a work bonus. That's what we have done here in Montana.

PAYNE: And it really is amazing. I have got a minute to go.

How do you feel now? So many states have followed your lead. And, by the way, some of these are blue states as well.

GIANFORTE: Yes, well, it's the right thing to do.

PAYNE: Yes.

GIANFORTE: And as we come into our tourist season, I just want to say we have blue-ribbon trout streams. They're crystal clear, Glacier Park, Yellowstone National Park.

We wanted to be in a position where we take care of all the Americans that choose to come here and get a line wet or just view the mountains. And our hotels, our restaurants, they didn't have the staff they needed. We needed to provide an incentive to get people back, so we could take care of all our visitors this summer.

PAYNE: Well, Governor, I say congratulations.

Montana without a doubt one of the most beautiful states in the union. And congratulations. You had an amazing idea. And now everyone's following your lead. And I think we're all going to be happy about it.

We will talk to you again real soon.

GIANFORTE: Thanks, Charles.

PAYNE: Well as violent crimes surge in cities across the nation, will law and order candidates, will they see a surge as well?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: So, as crime surges in cities across the country, could it mean a change in leadership?

"New York Times" opinion columnist Ezra Klein says, if these crime numbers continue to get worse, it could bring law and order conservatives back into power in 2024.

So do my next guests agree?

FOX News contributor Deneen Borelli, Democratic strategist and FOX News contributor Jess Tarlov, and The Washington Examiner's Kaylee McGhee White.

Deneen, law and order back in focus for the Republican Party?

DENEEN BORELLI, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yes, Charles.

Listen, the numbers that you showed earlier in the show are just absolutely stunning. This certainly opens the door for conservative politicians. And, look, government's basic role is to protect citizens.

And this -- voters need to understand how policies affect them and their families. They need to connect the dots. So, when you look at how Democrats are behind bail reform, they're behind defunding the police, these are initiatives that are not good for Americans. And it will result in more crime, which we're already seeing across the country.

PAYNE: You know, Jess, one thing that I -- that's intriguing to me is what's happening with the New York mayoral race.

JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

PAYNE: Andrew Yang had a real big lead. Scott Stringer was pretty popular one point.

All of a sudden, Eric Adams comes out of nowhere, and he's high in the polls in part because he's sort of taking an approach like, let's support the police. It seemed counterintuitive for New York City. I mean, if New York City goes this way, isn't that a message to Democrats?

TARLOV: I think it absolutely is.

And I should shout out to my mom, who got a picture with Andrew Yang this morning just walking around town after the my favorite subway stop is Times Square debacle.

PAYNE: At a bodega?

TARLOV: But it is his home stop.

No, it was not at a bodega. It was out on the water.

But you're exactly right. Eric Adams has made it a cornerstone issue, and as a borough president, and it's something that he has taken seriously throughout his career and knows how much it matters to New Yorkers. In just the fact -- the past few weeks, crime and policing has leapt to the number one issue to New Yorkers, as people have gotten vaccinated and COVID has moved down the list in terms of their priorities.

And the same thing is happening all over Democratic-run cities in America. Now, I think there's a tremendous opportunity for Democrats to put forward smart reforms, not talk about defunding the police, which only 18 percent of Americans support, but to talk about banning choke holds, to talk about ways that we can reform or reimagine the police, so that we don't end up with outcomes like what happened to Eric Garner or George Floyd or Breonna Taylor, and we can satisfy everyone who agrees that we want to root out the bad apples, but we want to make sure that we're safe and secure.

And that is what government is there for.

PAYNE: Well, Kaylee, if it's about messaging, the Democratic Party seems to be unable to control the loudest, more radical voices in their party. And they're the ones who get the ink, the headlines.

And, listen, they all kind of stoke the protests last year, even those that violated COVID protocols. So, it feels like they really thought they were on the winning horse. It's not winning anymore. Americans are being -- are starting to suffer, their own daily lives, every single day.

And they're not even looking at political parties anymore. They're like, bring back the police, aren't there?

KAYLEE MCGHEE WHITE, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Well, the 2020 election, I think, was a really good indication of how voters feel about this issue, because you had several House Democrats lose races that the Democratic Party did not expect to lose.

The House GOP actually made some really surprising gains. And several House Democrats even said to their own colleagues that they blamed defund the police rhetoric for those losses. So, you even have this kind of internal skirmish of more moderate members who recognize that anti-law enforcement rhetoric is hurting the party, because voters will not stand for it.

PAYNE: Deneen, to that point, it just -- it just -- it's one of these things where, every time something happens, it's -- it's laid on pretty thick.

You couple that with the changes in education that the progressives are pushing, and it just feels like the entire platform -- we all agree we're moving toward a more perfect union, so we're not there yet. But it's always about, this is not a great country, let's just completely rip up what we are and who we are because we're just a bad, evil place to be.

BORELLI: Right.

The left, the Democrats are certainly sending the wrong message, Charles. And look at what they stand behind. They despise fossil fuels. That means jobs and cheap, reliable energy. They don't support school choice. And you look at all the number of Americans who were in Democrat-run states who were overly harmed by the lockdowns because of the virus.

And so we're looking at different policies that are taking effect, rules and decisions that are made by Democrats that are not in the best interests of the Americans.

PAYNE: Jess, I have got less than a minute to go, 30 seconds.

Who's who's in charge of the messaging now for the Democratic Party?

TARLOV: Nancy Pelosi is in charge of the party, to Kaylee's point. Whip Clyburn obviously plays a huge role in this.

And he was one of the loudest voices saying that defund the police is the wrong way to go and that we lost seats as a result of that. But I do think that there is ample room for Democrats to make the case about what patriots are. I believe that we have more members of the House who have served than Republicans do people ,like Jason Crow, who was a hero and protected people during an insurrection that was fomented by Republicans themselves, many of whom did not serve, but perpetrated the big lie.

PAYNE: Right.

TARLOV: So, Democrats can do this, for sure.

PAYNE: All right, well, they have got work on their hands, because, in real life on the ground, things are really looking bad.

Ladies, thank you all very much.

BORELLI: Thank you.

TARLOV: Thanks, Charles.

PAYNE: That will do it for me here. It's been an absolute pleasure and an honor.

Neil will be back tomorrow. Everyone's asking me on social media. He's great. He's going to be here. It's going to be a fantastic show.

You can catch me on the FOX Business Network 2:00 p.m. on "Making Money." I'm going to try my best.

Until then, here's "THE FIVE."

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