This is a rush transcript from “Justice with Judge Jeanine," September 5, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello and welcome to JUSTICE. I'm Judge Jeanine Pirro. Thanks so much for being with us on this Labor Day Weekend. Let's get right to my open.
Don't lie to me. I am tired of lies. The absurdity of the claim that President Donald Trump, even the Donald Trump I knew before he was President would call fallen soldiers losers and suckers is absurd.
Disrespect the military. Are you crazy? From day one, this President has spoken proudly of and has been supportive of the United States military and law enforcement and like everything else, he doesn't just talk the talk; he walks the walk.
This week, "The Atlantic" claimed the President called deceased military buried in Aisne-Marne Cemetery near Paris, France, losers and suckers.
The article cites for people, the accusers to be able to quote exact words of the President, I would think the four people would have irrefutable, unblemished, unquestionable credentials. So who are they?
You know them well. Anonymous. No names. No attribution. No ability to even question their veracity. Good old anonymous.
You remember them. Anonymous brought you the fake dossier. Anonymous brought you the false Russia collusion delusion. Anonymous brought America three years of hell as they leaked to overthrow a duly elected President.
Anonymous, now 60 days before the election seeks to wreak havoc in a presidential election.
Now listen to "The Atlantic" editor-in-chief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Did they explain their thinking as to why they wouldn't put their names to these accounts?
JEFFREY GOLDBERG, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE ATLANTIC: They don't want to be inundated with angry tweets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: He didn't want them subjected to angry tweets? Mean tweets? Really? Go hide in a bunker somewhere.
In a trial, the behavior of an individual, what he does is often admitted to counter allegations inconsistent with that behavior. This President fought for an astounding increase of $738 billion in national defense to protect our military whittled down and demoralized during the O'Biden years.
Such was crucial to our country, which faces increasingly dangerous times with the ascension of China's military might paralleled with our own military suffering enormous cuts.
So what happened here? It was November 2018. The President was in France to celebrate military anniversaries. One visit to Aisne-Marne Cemetery was canceled because of the weather.
"The Atlantic" alleges through those trusty anonymous sources that the President canceled the visit because, quote: "The helicopter couldn't fly."
"The Atlantic" states the helicopter couldn't fly excuse was a lie. Really? Don't lie to me. We have concrete demonstrable evidence that conclusively refutes this.
Here is the e-mail sent that day. Look, the helicopter really can't fly. Bad weather call for today. United States Marine Corps military aided to the President.
So I guess the anonymous source lied. Anonymous told "The Atlantic" POTUS didn't go to the cemetery because he didn't want to get his hair wet. Really? Well, then please explain why the next day, President Trump is at another ceremony under the rain on the same trip and explain all these other photos in the rain. Anonymous lied again.
Don't lie to me. Anonymous says the President was unwilling to take a two and a half hour drive to the cemetery. Another lie that will be absolutely refuted by my next guest.
So who was in the room with the President when that was discussed? Sarah Sanders who no longer works for the President tweeted this. "I was there. This never happened."
John Bolton, no friend of the President says he was there and there was no talk by the President of losers and suckers.
The left wants you to believe because the President and John McCain didn't get along, these allegations must be right.
The President and John McCain were political enemies. Remember McCain's thumb down the feet of the Healthcare Bill? Records actually show McCain directed the fake Russian dossier about Trump to the F.B.I.
So how is it the people smart enough and strong enough to be in the President's inner circle don't have the chutzpah or the intestinal fortitude to say it in public.
But what kills me is when the anonymous liars are supported by people who know less than they do. Take, for example, this guy who was the mayor of some town in Indiana, who tweeted, "There are no words for how disgusting this is." When asked how we knew if it was even true, he says he can figure it out because the President thinks people who play by the rules or people who sacrifice for others are suckers.
Really? Then why does he work so hard to get our economy on track? To provide for the military? To deliver on all his promises? To provide minorities with jobs that your cronies could never do?
But from there, Buttigieg extrapolates he seems to think the President, Christians are suckers.
Really? The man who got rid of the Johnson Amendment, who fights to keep under God in our schools, who swore we'd be able to say Merry Christmas again, and who put in place the Mexico City policy for pivoting U.S. funds to be used internationally for abortions -- that President?
Are you sure you're not talking about Obama who told Christians to get off their high horses? Are you sure you're not talking about leftist governors who opened distilleries and keep churches closed?
Look, things are not looking all that great for Joe Biden right now. He is even forced to come out of his bunker.
The left's hissy fit knows no bounds. They will stop at nothing from impeachment to getting into our faces to ignoring their jobs to focus on destroying the President.
When you don't have the facts, you resort to lies. But the truth is clear. The job numbers that came out yesterday were higher than even expected, 10.6 million jobs created in four months, the fastest labor market recovery from any economic crisis in history. Perfect time for a hoax.
You have 59 days -- 59 days to decide on the future of this country. Witnesses willing to come forward are good old anonymous afraid to come out of the shadows.
As for me, I hate lies. Don't lie to me.
And that's my open. Let me know what you think on my Facebook and Twitter, #JudgeJeanine.
And if you like my opens, you'll love my new book, "Don't Lie to Me." Available for preorder right now. Thanks.
Here with reaction to my open and much more, Trump 2020 National Press Secretary, Hogan Gidley joins me now. Good evening, Hogan.
You were on that trip with the President in November of 2018. Is the allegation of the President maligning troops that's claimed by the anonymous sources in "The Atlantic" is that -- is that true?
HOGAN GIDLEY, TRUMP 2020 NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: These are disgusting, reprehensible, and grotesque lies. I was with the President in Paris. He never said that. He would never say that.
In fact, this President would never even think such vile thoughts about the brave men and women of our military. I've been with him many times. I worked in the White House for three years.
This is absolutely disgusting the way the media is trying to smear this President, the way they would use cowardly, shady sources who don't have the guts to go on the record, and they don't and they won't, because they know it's a flat out lie.
In addition, to try and use the military in this way, to try and hurt morale, to lie about the Commander-in-Chief simply to gain back some semblance of political power is absolutely sickening.
PIRRO: Let me ask you about the trip that clearly from the e-mail from the aide from the Marine Corps. It was bad weather. They couldn't take the helicopter.
GIDLEY: Right.
PIRRO: There are questions about why the President did not take the two and a half hour drive. Do you know why not?
GIDLEY: A couple of things. First of all, let's talk about the helicopter first. It's not the rain that is the issue. Helicopters can fly in rain. It's the fog. It's the cloud cover.
Getting there could have happened. They talked about this. We discussed how this would actually look. But any extraction effort would have been impossible.
So for example, had there been, God forbid, a threat against this President or another Head of State that was also in attendance, there would be no way to get the President to safety quickly.
The driving portion was possible in some form or fashion, but it's not safe at all. In addition, we had not coordinated anything with the local officials in Paris. They did not have the assets on the ground necessary to provide the safety, security and cover for the President to make that trip.
We work with the Secret Service, the most brave, most sacrificial, the toughest people on the planet. They knew this wouldn't work. They also know their job is to protect the President.
They've done it every single day, every single second. They're going to always do it, and this example is a perfect point to show they always will.
PIRRO: So there was no contingency if there had to be an immediate extraction of the President, if they had driven there. But let me ask you this. I mean, all of this about the President --
GIDLEY: Hold on, Judge. Judge, there's always a contingency. The problem was, it wasn't sufficient. They didn't feel strong enough that they could get the President to safety quickly. And that's what's important.
PIRRO: Right. Okay, good. Let's talk about what the President has done for the military and how different it is from when Obama and Biden were in power.
GIDLEY: Absolutely. Biden went all over this country, apologizing for America. I mean, we just saw a Democratic convention for four days in which they tried to tell the American people that America is inherently evil, that it's the cause of the world's problems.
They cut funding for the United States military. Remember how bad the VA was? People dying on gurneys in the hallways. It was a train wreck.
This President came in, rebuilt the military, trillions of dollars, cleaned up the VA, allowed them to fire people that weren't doing their jobs and protecting our strong vets. In addition, you know, he made sure that over at the VA, they could have choice as well. So they didn't have to rely on the Veterans Affairs and the VA hospitals. They could go other places as well.
This President has done more for the military. And listen, I have been with him when he goes to Walter Reed and talks to these brave men and women who've lost limbs, who've lost eyes, who've had their heads cracked open by the enemy and they thank him for a lot of things.
He's been with them. He's cried with them. He respects and reveres what they do. And one thing they consistently say is that this President, one of the things that Biden did, was they worked to hamstring the military in Afghanistan with all of these rules of engagement.
The President expanded that. The deaths, the maiming went down overseas because now the men and women of the military can defend themselves. They couldn't with Joe Biden and his policies.
PIRRO: Hogan Gidley, thanks so much for making that clear. Thanks so much for being with us tonight.
GIDLEY: Absolutely.
PIRRO: And earlier, I sat down with Senator Rand Paul to discuss the violent riots and mobs that continue to terrorize cities across our country. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PIRRO: Senator, thanks for being with us. I understand that at least one person has been rested from the angry mob who attacked you and your lovely wife, Kelley. Do you have any confidence that there will be consequences for the people who are being arrested in these mobs?
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): I think it's the only way we can stop this as people who break the law have to be arrested. There has to be a punishment.
Unfortunately, the man that tried to get to us, who tried to knock the policeman down to get to us was arrested for punching the policeman and causing a cut that required stitches around the policeman's eye.
But then he was released on his own recognizance, which means, I assume no bail and he's just gone. In fact, I sort of sarcastically said on Twitter today, if you're looking for him, you might try Kenosha.
But this is not funny. I mean, these protesters, we now have pictures of protesters who have been in Portland, Kenosha, Louisville, and D.C. The question is, who is financing this and who is flying them around?
It really is a Federal crime to incite riot and to fly people around to instigate violence. And I think that's what's happening. And yes, we've got to get to the bottom of this one person at a time, and once we have suspicion or probable cause, we need to ask a judge for a warrant and they need to look at their financial records and see -- for this.
PIRRO: Right. Okay. But do you have an idea of who might be financing this?
PAUL: No and -- but we do need to get to the bottom of this because there's one or two possibilities, it could be nefarious rich individuals who want to foment violence in our cities, or it could be less sinister but still equally as bad.
Black Lives Matter is out there collecting corporation money from corporations who want to show the public that they're not racist. But these corporations need to know if that money is going to Black Lives Matter and if Black Lives Matter is giving it to hooligans to cause and create havoc in cities.
Someone has to trace the money. I don't know the answer yet. But I certainly think we need to know.
PIRRO: I believe Attorney General Bill Barr is doing that as we speak. But you know, what is happening in the Criminal Justice System is so different now.
I mean, the idea of the so-called bail reform, which means literally no bail, but now we've got prosecutors including a prosecutor from Contra Costa County in California who says that her prosecutors should consider whether looters who have been arrested for stealing -- before charging them, they should consider the looters needs.
In other words, if the looter is poor and needed something that maybe they shouldn't prosecute and in Manhattan, the DA, Cy Vance is telling his assistant DAs, you know, make sure that there isn't police brutality and if you need to, get the arrestees, the looters to testify against the police.
I mean, how are we going to change this Criminal Justice System? Will it ever change?
PAUL: NPR had a woman on there talking about why looting was justified. Would that not violate Twitter's policy basically? That you're not supposed to be inciting violence. Is looting not violence?
You had a member of the Black Lives Matter from Chicago after all the storefronts were broken, running around saying, this is reparations, baby. And so really?
In a civilized world, we have people making an argument for looting. So this is a question I have for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. How come they won't condemn these people who attacked my wife and I and the two other women that were with us? They can't attack it.
All they do is they get on TV, they say, oh, yes, there's violence. We don't like violence, but it's all Donald Trump's fault.
Well, the cities that the violence is occurring in have been run by Democrats for 50 years. Law and order is largely the province of mayors and governors, not the Federal Congress or Presidents.
And so really, the failure is coming from the cities and they need to own up to it because frankly, I think a lot of people are not going to be happy living in a country that looks like poor island.
PIRRO: And I think, Senator, what we're seeing now is more and more people, more and more prosecutors being elected and having their elections funded by these left-wing organizations.
Senator Rand Paul, thanks so much for being with us this evening.
PAUL: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PIRRO: Still ahead, Corey Lewandowski and Leo Terrell on what a Biden- Harris White House would mean for America.
But first, Biden is out of the bunker. So what is he saying now? You won't believe it. Dan Bongino breaks it all down, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: COVID has taken this year -- just since the outbreak -- it has taken more than 100 year -- look, here's -- the lives -- it's just -- I mean, if you think about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: Did that makes sense to you? Let's ask my next guest, host of "The Dan Bongino Show" podcast and FOX News contributor, Dan Bongino.
All right, Dan, that was this week. All right, that was in Pittsburgh this week. And all of a sudden now Joe Biden after the President was in Kenosha, Joe Biden decided, I'm going to go to Kenosha, so he goes to Kenosha.
Do you think this guy can make it through the campaign now that he is not hiding in the bunker anymore?
DAN BONGINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, a couple of things about that opening comment from Biden. I don't speak Biden. Very few people do. I don't know what he was saying.
I mean, go back and if you read that in the transcript verbatim, you know with the dot, dot, dots and the dot, dot, dots. I mean, seriously, folks, I strongly encourage you to try to translate what exactly Joe Biden is saying.
I mean, Judge, listen. Honestly, I don't think it's funny that he is cognitively impaired. I don't at all. But, he is running for the Presidency of the United States. Is it a fair question to be able to relay a coherent thought?
I mean, seriously. I was a Secret Service agent. I had to take a psychological evaluation to protect the President. I mean, Joe Biden, no one knows what he is saying. What is he saying there?
But here's my guess. My guess is he is talking about how effective his COVID strategy was -- was it? His own adviser on this, Ron Klain, called the travel ban by Trump, referred to it in essence as premature and an overreaction. Biden called the travel ban or implied it was xenophobic, and everything Biden suggested, Judge for COVID, Trump has already done.
I mean, I don't know where he is going with this, and again, I don't speak Biden. I don't know what that means.
PIRRO: Well, you know, it's not just that, but it's the back and forth. I mean, initially, I'm against fracking, you know, and then it's like, well, maybe some fracking, you know, when they see that the polls are going the other way. And the states that are important want to -- want to be able to frack and then the whole thing with defunding the police. It's first of all, it's yes, absolutely. And then, well, no, not really. We will move the money around.
You know, I understand politics changes all the time. But will he be able to actually get people in America to understand where he actually stands? And that now he is saying he is against the looters?
BONGINO: Yes. Well, you know, you're right. Politics, people lie in politics, both parties. I think we both get that, Judge. But that's the point.
For all the, you know, attacks in the media and Donald Trump about oh my gosh, he's such a liar. He said he had cream in his coffee and he had milk. What did he say he was going to do? He was going to build the wall. He built the wall.
He said he was going to appoint Federal judges who were conservative. That's what he did. He said we were going to get a tax cut. That's exactly what you got.
Joe Biden. I played a video on my show the other day, not a joke. I called it the Biden versus Biden debates, and the video, Judge was clips of Joe Biden debating himself. I am not for fracking. We're going to shut down fossil fuels. I'm going to look you in the eye. Five minutes later, Donald Trump is lying. I'm all about fracking.
He's a liar. I mean, he is thinking about redirecting funds away from the police, which means defunding if you go get a Thesaurus out there, right? And then suggesting later, I don't want to defund the police.
Biden debates himself. He lies all the time. And maybe because he forgot his position. Who knows?
PIRRO: Well, it could be -- it could be that he forgot. It also could be the nature of the game. But you know, when he said that, you know, depending on the scientist, he would shut down the country and now he is moving away from that.
It's almost like they've all got their fingers to the wind to try to figure out which way the winds are blowing.
BONGINO: Yes, and that's kind of in the beginning the appeal -- not to turn it around about Trump again, but it's important. It's a contrast. It's a binary choice -- Trump or Biden?
For all the bluster and the bravado some people like and some people don't, has he really changed his position on anything significant? The answer is, no. Biden has changed his position on everything.
I'm going to lock down the country if the scientist says so. It's not what I really meant. I was just kind of kidding about that. And then the mask mandate. There's going to be a national mask mandate. It's not going to be a mandate, it's going to be a suggestion.
I mean, this guy can't get out of his own way, Judge.
PIRRO: Because we're running out of time. We have to say the mask mandate doesn't apply to Nancy Pelosi, and I hope you understand that.
BONGINO: Well, it doesn't apply to any politician apparently, especially when you're getting a blowout in a closed hair salon in San Francisco. There's a sign on the door, if you're an elitist snob politician, don't worry, the rules don't apply to you. All elitist snobs are welcome right in here. So yes, you're right. It doesn't apply to Pelosi, of course.
PIRRO: Dan Bongino, thanks so much.
Still ahead, Dr. Robert Hariri on some surprising new information on COVID deaths. But next, what would a Biden-Harris White House mean for you and your family? Corey Lewandowski and Leo Terrell break it down, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JACKIE IBANEZ, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Live from "America's News Headquarters," I'm Jackie Ibanez in New York.
New York Attorney General Letitia James moving to form a grand jury to investigate the death of Daniel Prude. Prude was a black man who died after an encounter with Rochester Police back in late March. Seven officers have been suspended in connection with his death.
Rochester cops and protesters clashing for a third straight night yesterday. Protesters there throwing rocks and bottles. Police responding with pepper balls and teargas.
Meanwhile, thousands of demonstrators marching on Churchill Downs racetrack today to protest the death of Breonna Taylor. The crowd chanting "No Justice, No Derby."
Meantime inside the track, Authentic holding off a late challenge from favorite Tiz the Law to win the 146th running of the Kentucky Derby.
Authentic paying $18.00 to $80.00 for a $2.00 win ticket. There were no spectators this year due to the COVID-19 pandemic, of course.
I'm Jackie Ibanez. Now back to JUSTICE WITH JUDGE JEANINE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He wants to surrender your nation to the radical left-wing mob. He is trying to change now, you know what I am saying. That's not working because we're going up and he is dropping like a rock in water.
Biden will never be able to protect your jobs or your family. He is a puppet of the socialist Marxist and the cop hating extremists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: President Trump rallying supporters in the battleground, State of Pennsylvania this week describing a little bit of what a Biden-Harris White House will look like for America.
My panel is here to weigh in. Trump 2020 Senior Adviser, Corey Lewandowski along with Civil Rights attorney and podcast host, Leo Terrell join me now.
All right, so we've had about 100 days of protests and Joe Biden was silent from Seattle to Portland to Chicago to Kenosha to New York. And now all of a sudden, he is talking about it. Leo, why do you think that might be?
LEO TERRELL, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY AND PODCAST HOST: I'll tell you, Judge, very simply, because the American public gets it.
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are extremists. They've allowed the Black Lives Matter and Antifa to hijack all these Democratic cities. And the American public is afraid, because they're allowing these criminals to come out every day and night and to show the results. Minnesota -- the State of Minnesota is in play because the American public do not want to be terrorized day in and day out.
They are domestic terrorists in these cities, the Democratic mayors are doing nothing. And you notice also, Judge, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will not tell you what they're going to do for America because your policies are socialist.
Joe Biden is controlled by Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris is only out for one person, Kamala Harris. That ticket cannot win. We have to elect Donald Trump.
PIRRO: All right, Corey, your thoughts?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, TRUMP 2020 SENIOR ADVISER: Look, Judge, I can tell you this, Donald Trump has continued to receive the endorsements of major police unions around this country, because he stands with the men and women who serve on the thin blue line.
Every person in America deserves a place that they're safe and secure in their homes, at their place of worship, at their schools, at their businesses.
This President is promising those, but these mayors have to call in the administration to solve the problems in these communities.
They've allowed the far left to destroy their businesses, to destroy their communities and their homes. But when it comes to them personally, Judge, and we've seen this now with mayors, when their homes are being vandalized. You know what they do? Either call in the police to protect their own property or they move because of it.
Look, every American deserves better. And this administration, this administration, and only this, the Trump-Pence administration deserves and will always stand with the men and women who serve between the good and evil on the thin blue line, Judge.
PIRRO: All right, and you know, Leo, with respect to everything that's been going on, the left now comes out and they now say this chaos is all Donald Trump's fault. This chaos is Donald Trump's America.
The chaos that they're not talking about, and, you know, we've never seen a MAGA hat on anybody who is protesting like that. How do they actually accuse the President of this chaos?
TERRELL: Lies, lies, lies, lies, and by the way, more lies. The Democrats are panicking because the polls are shifting in Donald Trump's favor.
Let me give you a perfect example, Judge, in Wisconsin. Donald Trump goes to Wisconsin. He goes and talks to the law enforcement officers. He goes and talks to the victims whose businesses were burned down.
What does Joe Biden Joe do? Joe Biden goes to a little seminar and talks to a few people for five minutes. Joe Biden's talk is cheap. Donald Trump -- Donald Trump will put forth and power programs behind everything he says. That's why he's waiting, willing and able to call in the National Guard if requested.
But what they're doing right now in these Democratic cities, they don't want Donald Trump's assistance because it would prove that Donald Trump is absolutely correct on the issue of law and order.
PIRRO: And, you know, Corey, in terms of the President visiting Kenosha, he didn't just visit and I love what Leo said that talk is cheap.
He gave, I think it was a million dollars to law enforcement, $4 million to the businesses. I mean, you know, he puts action behind his words.
LEWANDOWSKI: You know, Judge, you have to look at this in the grand context of the difference between the Trump campaign and the Biden campaign.
Thirteen members of the Biden campaign were paying for these looters, marauders and hoodlums to get out of jail. They were putting money up so these people can go out and destroy the cities again, right?
The Donald Trump campaign and the Trump administration is saying, let's give money to law enforcement. Let's make sure they have the resources necessary to be successful. Let's make sure they are not being attacked and brutalized on the streets for trying to keep law and order.
This is what America stands for. It always has and it always will. We can't allow this bedlam to continue. This President is willing to stop it, but he has to be called in and when he is called in like he was in Wisconsin, the next day, it was under control.
TERRELL: There is no civilized --
PIRRO: Leo, those --
TERRELL: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
PIRRO: Go ahead. Go ahead.
TERRELL: There is no civilized society without security. That's the number one priority of government. And what we have seen in all these Democratic cities is lawlessness. And that scares me and everyone in this country because this stuff will spread throughout the entire country.
It will go well beyond a Democratic city. This is frightening. This is enough motivation for people to vote for Donald Trump. There is no choice here. There is only one person and his name is Donald Trump.
PIRRO: All right, Corey Lewandowski and Leo Terrell, thanks so much for sharing your weekend with us.
LEWANDOWSKI: Thanks, Judge.
TERRELL: Thank you, Judge.
PIRRO: And you're welcome. Still ahead, Dave Rubin went off the grid for a month and he is ready to weigh in on the polarization of America and how divided we've become.
But first interesting news C.D.C. statistics on coronavirus deaths and what it may mean for our country being able to fully reopen. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PIRRO: Welcome back to JUSTICE. While many schools remain unopened because of coronavirus concerns, a new C.D.C. report shows that only 9,200 of the 161,000 deaths counted as COVID were from COVID alone. The other 94 percent had contributing conditions.
Dr. Robert Hariri is the founder and CEO of Celularity, and he joins me now with more.
All right, Doctor, so if six percent of the 161,000 died from COVID alone. Is the mortality rate really reflecting the people who are dying of COVID?
DR. ROBERT HARIRI, FOUNDER AND CEO, CELULARITY: You know, that's the big question. What we know is that the vast majority of people who die from this disease are very advanced age or they have more than one serious life threatening condition.
These comorbid conditions can best be characterized as bad health. They include things like diabetes, high blood pressure, preexisting cardiac disease, immunologic disease, and it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that these people are at risk of dying regardless of the precipitating factor.
These are the people who unfortunately pass away during heat waves or just when they're exposed to things like seasonal flu. So what's striking though, is that the C.D.C. data really suggests that had we paid more attention to the preexisting disease and had we used that as a factor in who we should protect, in other words, we know who's got diabetes and hypertension and heart disease.
If we knew that and we focused our isolation measures and our protective measures on them and allowed the rest of the population to go about their business, we might be in a very different position today.
PIRRO: Well, you know, if we use money then for things like diabetes and respiratory illnesses, as opposed to all the money we spent on COVID, but you know, there was some argument at the beginning, that this will be so horrible that the President shut down the economy.
And now we're looking at it and people are saying, only 6,000 people or 9,210 people to be exact died from COVID alone. So should we have closed down and why did we listen to that hysteria at the beginning?
HARIRI: Listen, hindsight is 2020, right? And you know, I had the benefit. I was trained by a bunch of trauma surgeons who said in any emergency, the first thing to do is take your own pulse.
I don't like the fact that we jumped to a very aggressive posture about this, based upon reliance of one epidemiologic model produced by a Professor at Imperial College London, Professor Ferguson, who has a track record of outlandishly overblown and alarmist predictions on these sorts of viral illnesses.
You know, he's the guy who said that in response to the swine flu, or mad cow disease that millions of people were going to die, and in fact, if you think about it, the bird flu which he predicted would kill 200 million people wound up killing less than 500 globally.
So you know, he's the wrong person to be following a model of and I am disappointed.
PIRRO: But we listened to him. But, Doctor, we listened to him and now we're listening to basically two doctors, Birx and Fauci and -- I mean, should there be a Commission and I only have 10 seconds or should we just continue to listen to one or two people?
HARIRI: Listen, you know what? We should have approached this the way we approached every other crisis create an absolute panel of world and national experts, like the Manhattan Project and innovate our way out of the problem.
I'm concerned that we relied on bad models, and even though we know now that that this really affects a very select part of the population, we're not focusing our efforts on them.
We have a blanket policy of isolating and restricting everybody. I don't think that serves the public interest.
PIRRO: Dr. Robert Hariri, thank you so much for being with us on JUSTICE.
My next guest has been off the grid for a month and no, it's not Joe Biden. Dave Rubin is fired up about how America has become so polarized. She joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Violent mobs demolished or damaged at least 25 businesses, burned down public buildings and threw bricks at police officers, which your police officers won't stand for, and they didn't stand for it.
These are not acts of peaceful protest, but really domestic terror.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: That's President Trump in Kenosha this week. My next guest went away for a month and can't believe how much more polarized the country has become in a few short weeks.
Host of "The Rubin Report," Dave Rubin joins me now with reaction to that and more.
All right, David, first question, where were you for a month? You're not going to tell us, are you?
DAVE RUBIN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND AUTHOR: Judge, I can't disclose location. But I will tell you this much. Last time I spoke to you, which was a little over a month ago, I was considering leaving LA and as many of my friends have left, but I did decide to at least stay here because if some good decent people can't stay in Los Angeles, can't stay in California, then the polarization really will have reached a point where we're living in two different countries.
So I'm going to stay and fight here. Look, they were old school Reagan conservatives a long time ago, and I think there's a chance we can start bringing them back, so we'll see.
PIRRO: Well, hope springs eternal. But let me ask you how, when you were off the grid, wherever that was, and you came back? I mean, did you expect things to be different in the country?
RUBIN: Well, you know, it's funny, everywhere that I went, when someone would come up to me, people would say, well, first, they can't believe that I do this, that I have no phone, no news, no information, no current events, no nothing.
And then the second thing they would say is, oh, it's so much worse. You're not going to believe what happened. And look, a lot of things happened, and we know about the riots and the protests and everything else.
But what I'm concerned about, and the reason that I do this off the grid thing, I've done it for four years now, a whole month, in August, is that it gives you a little perspective that I think sometimes for people like us that are in the news cycle all the time and we love this stuff. But you know, you end up reacting to everything instead of getting a little distance from it.
And what I've noticed is just being back a few days here is that it really does seem like there's a war on reality right now because a certain set of the population people that don't watch your show or don't watch my show, they don't believe what President Trump was just talking about.
They don't get to see the videos, the violent videos of the rioters and the protesters attacking people and stopping cars on the street and burning down buildings because they're not showing it on the other networks.
And what I'm worried about is if depending on what channel you watch, or what YouTube show you watch, or what the algorithm is giving you, we're going to end up living in two countries, not just geographically as I talked about before, whether you're in California or New York, but sort of intellectually and philosophically if your information is just catered to make you think one thing or the other.
PIRRO: Well, you know, the sad part about that is that people are so committed now to listening to one source for their news or another and you know, they're not interested in looking at the other -- of the other channel or the other station or the other, you know, whatever the URL might be. And that doesn't make for, you know, a country coming together.
But in terms of the election, there are 59 days before the election and a lot of talk while you've been gone about the mail and votes and all of that, you know, the people that are dug in right now are dug in. There is that small group in the middle who I believe, decide this election? What's your sense about what's going to be happening?
RUBIN: Yes, well, it's a great question, and I'll tell you this, I actually think that the small group isn't as small as you might think. I actually think most people -- maybe not most, but I'd say a good chunk, say 30 percent could still probably be swayed one way or the other.
And I think what's going to happen is if you're the average person and you're watching your business burn or your local restaurant not open or the rest of the nonsense that we're seeing and statues being torn down and general mayhem.
If your choice is Donald Trump, who you may not like for whatever reason, you don't like the way he tweets, whatever it is, but if your choice is, oh, he is going to bring law and order or the other side, Joe Biden, as your previous guests was just saying, Joe Biden is now being led basically by the worst elements of the progressive movement. And in essence, they're the foot soldiers for the Democrats at this point.
If the choice is law and order and some semblance of loving America and the country that we've all known for 240 years, or that, I think that that 30 percent is going to break very hard to Trump. That's not going to show up in the polls because they won't say it in the polls, but I think it'll show up in November.
PIRRO: All right. Dave Rubin, thanks for coming back.
And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PIRRO: The wait is almost over. My new book, "Don't Lie to Me" is almost out. You can preorder it now and be the very first to have it on Amazon.
Thanks for watching. I'm Jeanine Pirro advocating for truth, justice and the American way.
JUSTICE has been served. Greg Gutfeld is next. See you next Saturday night.
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