BMW X4M, Hyundai Elantra, cheap used cars | Autoblog Podcast #707

This episode of the Autoblog Podcast features Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore and Consumer Editor Jeremy Korzeniewski discussing the difference between timeless style and current styling trends, based on a backdrop of the BMW X4M and Hyundai Elantra. We then consider the best used vehicles for reasonable prices and look back at a full year's worth of brand-new electric vehicles. We segue into the beers we like to sip while sitting by the fire during the winter and finish up with a followup on a previous Spend My Money segment. #AutoblogPodcast #BMWX4M #HyundaiElantra

Video Transcript

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GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to The Autoblog Podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today is consumer-editor Jeremy Korzeniewski. Happy December.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I can't believe that today is December 1st, the day that we're recording this is December 1st. It's crazy to me.

GREG MIGLIORE: This, I think, November was one of the fastest months I have ever lived through. But hey, it's December. It's the holiday season. We're going to talk about some winter beers later on in the podcast.

A little bit all over the place. Some of mine, admittedly, are a little cliche, but hey, that's OK. You know, why not? It's December. Have a beer.

But as far as things we're driving, I drove the BMW X4M in competition trim. So that's really quite something. And Jeremy and I have both driven the Hyundai Elantra in hybrid trim.

So kind of both ends of the spectrum here. So that should be kind of fun to get into. We do have an update on spending your money. And we also will talk about some of the best used cars and trucks and SUVs for $10,000.

So let's jump right in. I literally just got out of the X4M, like I said, in competition trim. It's a lot of car, a lot of crossover. You know, I think there's a lot of debate sometimes when we try to explain these things. Like, is this really an M car?

Well, this requires you to really rethink your definition of an M. Now, if you like raw power, if you like that styling, if you like the sport seats, you like the suspension and the steering-- and the engine can be as aggressive as you'd like. It has that-- that good, sort of, BMW M tuning setup in the middle of the car. And it's a serious performance machine.

That's my initial take away. I could say this. I can see if you were, like, looking for a sporty crossover, like, that's what you wanted, and then you're also an enthusiast or someone who just wants the most power and performance they can get, and this is the size and shape of a vehicle you want, then this is your thing. Candidly, it wouldn't be mine. I would definitely go with, like, an M3 or something, or an M5.

Or if I was going to go with a crossover, I would just go with, like, an X4, or like a Ford Explorer or Expedition or something. Like, I guess sometimes when you get into these crossover, coupe things, you know, to me, it gets a little muddied. I also generally like things like the Porsche Cayenne and Porsche Macan a little bit better when it comes to just sportiness versus some of these-- like an X4 that is the crossover coupe-styled sort of thing.

But I mean, you can't argue with just the raw performance, you know. 3 liter, twin-turbo inline 6. It's really potent. Over 500 horsepower, 503 to be specific.

They retuned the ECU, and you get an unique exhaust. Which I'm actually now reading from Joel Stockdale's first drive, which was over a year and a half ago. It's been a while since we've actually driven this thing.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Wow.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Sounds amazing. It really cackles and growls. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what it is. I probably should have-- I've buried the lead. It's, like, lime green, booger green. Like, it's bright green. It's, like, the craziest, limiest, yellowish, greenish color you would ever see.

So I've been driving around town with it. It's a little cold out. Had a little bit of snow earlier this week. You know, just-- you know, very typical like X4 things, but not really X4M things. So you know, that's where it stands.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: So you drove the competition model, correct?

GREG MIGLIORE: That's right.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: OK, so the standard X4M is 473 horsepower.

GREG MIGLIORE: Mhm.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: The one that you drove is, what now?

GREG MIGLIORE: Mine is about $87,000. 86,000, 87,000.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: $87,000. And what's the horsepower?

GREG MIGLIORE: 503.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: 503. I mean, let's just pause for a moment and reflect on the fact that you can get a 503 horsepower crossover coupe from BMW in the year 2022.

GREG MIGLIORE: Let's pause and reflect on that, yes.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, it's a little crazy.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: It's almost kind of a-- I do want to hear your commentary on, you know, do you prefer the crossover coupe--ish look, feel, and capabilities of an X4, or would you advise people-- or if you were spending your own money, would you go straight for the X5, which is basically the same thing, except with considerably more utility and if you think that the crossover coupe is a sporty shape, a little bit less than a sporty shape.

GREG MIGLIORE: X5, for sure. The X4 is OK. It's attractive, but just to me, if you're going to go with the crossover, get the actual crossover, you know.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right. No. I feel the same way. Ever since BMW started doing this with the first X6, which actually the X4 if-- I've got this backwards. So the X4 is the crossover coupe version of the X3. The X6 is the crossover coupe version of the-- but when you actually start pricing them, because BMW charges more for less utility, for less vehicle in the even numbered vehicles, which are the sportier versions of the odd number vehicles, but you go up a number, not down, like I had said a minute ago.

So if you're listening, don't send us emails. That was a quick slip, but we corrected. I totally agree with you. So I don't understand exactly why you choose an X4 over and X3, especially when you can get a really nice larger sized X5 with crazy horsepower for not a large price disparity. But also, like, this is a trend with BMW.

Just this week BMW unveiled their new XM, which is only the second M-badged model after the classic and iconic M1. So, you know, clearly this is not a segment or a marketplace trend that BMW is going to be ignoring moving forward.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think it's-- BMW, I think, was really the first, even before Mercedes, to start rolling out, like, performance models in these kind of tweeter segments.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right.

GREG MIGLIORE: So I mean, they're really trying to, I think, almost fill in every single blank, somewhat unnecessarily, you know. I mean, I will say this, if you want a crossover, and you want, like, some of the BMW dynamics, familiar ones, like the steering and the chassis set up, and you want a lot of power. I mean, that's kind of the sandwich you're making here, if you will.

You know, I don't know. When I look at X4 and X6, I can see the X6 a little bit more than the X4 because, at that point, it's still a pretty big vehicle. The X4 is not a small vehicle. It's larger than it's ever been. I remember when these cars first came out. I feel like it was at the Detroit Auto Show, like, back to back years.

Like, I remember covering it. Like '05, and 6, or 6 and 7, or 5 and 7. I don't know. I remember being there for that.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right.

GREG MIGLIORE: So, you know, give them credit, they sell plenty.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right, yeah, they wouldn't keep doing it if they weren't making money on these. And I think that was one of the big questions when they unveiled, was like, are people going to pay more for, you know, ostensibly less vehicle? And the answer is yes.

And, you know, I'm not one to criticize another person's choice. If they want the, quote, unquote, "sportier version" with less practicality, more power to them. I mean, it's their money. They can spend it however they want.

But it makes just so much more sense to me in a day in, day out living with a vehicle standpoint to choose the full [INAUDIBLE] version with a lot more cargo space because, why are you living with the compromises of a crossover in the first place if you don't need the utility of it? So it's a fashion statement. And, you know, good on BMW for defining this segment and sticking with it, and they're doing well with it.

Real quick. I want to know what you think of this BMW XM, the-- while we're on the topic of BMW crossovers. It's very controversial, to say the least.

GREG MIGLIORE: I like it, but I also have been OK with the, like, the grille, on, like, kind of the crazy grille that we've seen in some of the more recent BMWs. So I don't mind the risks. I think if you look over BMW's history, they've had some pretty crazy designs. It's just not how they typically are.

But every now and then, like, once a decade, they do something that makes everybody stand back and go, what are we doing here? What is this? And more often than not, they end up being iconic. So I'm OK with it.

It almost reminds me of a Lexus or a Hyundai though, in some ways. But I mean, it's very significant because, like you said, this would only be the second standalone M model since the M1. So which-- I mean, that's an icon when you look at it, but also kind of risky car.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. And to be fair, this is being shown in concept form, the XM. So I'm sure that changes will be made, but I think BMW more than any other automaker is showing right now that they're not afraid to push boundaries when it comes to styling. I'm just going to go on the record as saying, I don't like the way this thing looks, but I will give credit where credit is due.

BMW is not backing down from their styling direction and their current design direction. And if you're going to do it, go all the way. This is how I felt with-- I mean, remember the Acura ZDX?

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: It was like Honda, Acura's sporty crossover coupe thing. 10, 12 years ago. And at the time when I first saw it, I was like, yikes. And then I saw it in person and test drove one and spent a week with it. And I'm like, you know what? Like, kudos to them for not backing down and taking something to its, like, ultimate peak.

And I still don't love that era of Acuras, but if I'm pointing at one and saying that one's memorable, it's the ZDX. And I kind of feel like-- I kind of feel like the XM-- and now, like we said, it's concept form right now, but we'll see what the production version. And I'm sure it's going to push boundaries like the concept has.

We might look back on this era of BMWs with the grille and the kind of the crazy sharp creases and lines and sort of issuing their classic look for something that pushes new boundaries. Maybe we'll look at this one and say, like, well, that's the memorable one. Like, that is the one that stands out from this period as, like, the quintessential BMW of the 2020s, but we'll see.

GREG MIGLIORE: I can almost see, though, when I look at this picture, like flipping through the gallery, how this is going to come together. And I don't think it'll be as insane as, like, we think, you know. Like, I can see how, like-- you know, it's really the front and the back end that's a little cartoonish. Some of the other parts, I think, will just kind of morph into something a little more, like, civilized. So we'll see. I mean, I would say they're high on my list of companies that is, like, really going after it, and I like that.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. Kudos and credit where credit's due. I don't have to like it. I think enough people like it, you know, that they're going to have a success with it. And, you know, speaking of companies that are kind of pushing new styling boundaries, I think Hyundai, Kia, Genesis qualifies as well.

It brings to mind the current Hyundais. And not to steal potential segue break from you, Greg, but while we're on the idea of-- or on the topic of, like, pushing boundaries with styling, I think the Hyundai Elantra.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yes.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Which is the next vehicle that we're going to talk about, qualifies. Like, if you look at the Elantra's lineage leading up to this new 2021 addition-- 2021 is a complete divergence from anything that they've done. And I think previous Elantra's have been-- like, no one's going to look at it and say, like, whoa, that thing looks amazing. But also no one's going to look at it and say, like, I could never drive that. I hate it.

Whereas this new 2021 version falls into the latter camp. Like, I could see a lot of people looking at it and saying, like, oh, I hate that, it's so ugly. However, it's different, it's memorable, and it gives people a reason to pick it over some of the more boring-- I don't want to say boring, maybe less dramatic designs. Like, you know, obviously the Toyota Corolla and the new Honda Civic is brand new for this year as well, but it's boring by comparison.

If you were to park the Elantra next to a Civic and a Corolla, the Elantra is obviously the one that is going to draw your eye because it's got such a different design with, like, sharp angles, kind of pontoon fenders almost, a beak of sorts up front. So again, kind of similar with what's going on with BMW, I personally don't love it, like, I don't look at it and say, like, whoa, that's the groundbreaking design I've been waiting for, but I'm glad that they're doing something different and aren't just trying to blend in. Do you have any thoughts on that, Greg?

GREG MIGLIORE: So I drove the Elantra-- it was a while ago-- and in hybrid trim. And I didn't use a lot of fuel because I didn't drive very much, candidly. But it was a very-- I remember exactly what I did with it. I went to get my eyes checked for the first time in-- jeez, it was over a year at this point, just because I wasn't going to the eye doctor during lockdown. I could see good enough. And I'm like, oh, we'll go from there.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: But there's a lot of things about the Elantra I like, especially the way the cabin is set up, everything is within reach. I think you get a lot of value for the price. Even at the very bottom of the Elantra portfolio, you still get a lot of stuff. I think they make creative use of materials. So even though it doesn't really look expensive-- or, it's not expensive, but it also doesn't feel cheap.

And I think Hyundai does a good job at that. You know, because sometimes cars at this price point, they do look cheap, and that's because they are cheap, and that's, like, a totally fair assessment. So I've always thought Hyundai does a good job of setting up their interiors. I think their infotainment systems are usually pretty good to use.

You know, the hybrid is-- to me, it's like, this is a car that I got in the high 30s MPG as I think back. So it's, like, you get a lot for what you're spending here, you know. It's a pretty good value, I think, in the hybrid space. It's fun to drive, too. It's kind of a little torquey. You know. I mean--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: It's got an electric motor, which-- you know, which adds a little bit of torquey boost to the around town driving. I haven't driven the regular one. I hear that the base engine is extremely non-memorable. The hybrid, I think, is the one to pick. The base one I think is a 2 liter with 147 horsepower and 132 pound feet, and I think it gets 33 miles per gallon combined.

The hybrid is a 1.6 liter, but it's got an additional 32 kilowatt electric motor. So the full horsepower on that is 139, which is less than the 147 of the base engine, but it's 195 pound feet of torque as opposed to 132. So that's what you're going to notice around town driving. 195 pound feet of torque is-- is a stout amount for a non-performance efficiency-minded sedan.

I did better than you in fuel economy. I got 48 miles per gallon in my week of driving with it, but I didn't ever-- it's not the kind of vehicle that I'm going to take on back roads and pound. So it's just like driving to the grocery store, running some errands, just this and that, like, your typical-- your typical driving.

And I'll just put it this way, I'd much rather drive that every day than a Prius, which gets similar mileage. And the Elantra doesn't feel like you're making sacrifices for that kind of efficiency like a Prius does. It's definitely an option that I would be drawn to. Also, I remember thinking when I was driving it that it is the kind of vehicle that just makes so much sense for a huge percentage of the population.

You know, there's a lot of people that are not ready to make a switch to electric vehicles. A hybrid, like the Elantra Hybrid, and it was a limited trim that I had, is, like, a great gateway car into the efficiency sweepstakes, so to speak. Maybe kind of to whet your appetite on how little gas you could use, how you can save a lot of money and not feel like you're penalizing yourself so that maybe the next go round, five, six years later, and EVs are more mainstream, every automaker has them in every size and price category, and there's more charging stations built up, then maybe you'll be ready, you know, on the next go round.

And it's roomy. It's got plenty of space. It's like the size of-- of your family car from what you grew up with that your family used for everything. Like, imagine the mid-'90s Ford Taurus or Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. The current Elantra is about the same size. It's got just as much space inside and a nice big trunk that is very useful, very practical.

And it's not particularly expensive. I did a quick little price check. It starts at $28,100 in limited trim, so that gets you-- the hybrid powertrain, it gets you the big 10.25 navigation screen, heated and ventilated leather seats, all the goodies that you expect out of a modern car. And it's the kind of car that probably most people should be buying as their day in, day out family commuting vehicle.

GREG MIGLIORE: I should probably restate my numbers. Looking at the numbers, you can get in the 50s as far as, like, EPA ratings. I think I'm misremembering. I don't think I got in the 30s, unless it was, like, a really short drive where I was just mashing the throttle. My guess is it was probably at least in the 40s. So just--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: We know how you drive, Greg.

GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, it's possible. Maybe I got in the 20s. I don't know. So-- I'm probably not getting that in the X4M, that's for sure.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: But last thought on this Elantra before we move on.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I like that Hyundai is pushing boundaries on styling. I like that they're trying new things in the interior too. The one that I had had the full digital gauge cluster.

One knock that I'll give it is I don't think that the current interior style is going to age well. I think these current Hyundai, kind of-- I don't know how to put it. Like, it looks like there is a tablet mounted on the dash for the infotainment screen. That's a look and feel that we've gotten used to. It also kind of looks like there's a tablet directly behind the steering wheel where the gauge cluster sits.

And they don't try to hide the fact that it's a rectangular screen sitting there. It's not like-- they don't go-- they're not going out of their way to integrate it with the rest of the dash, make it look like it's flowing in there, cover it with an extra large glass screen so it looks like it's all one piece. It literally looks like there's a screen in front of you.

And I think, as far as, like, minimalist design goes, that's not a bad way to do it, to try to hide the fact of, you know-- that if this is a techie thing, just put it there. You know? And it is what it is. But I think they could do a little bit better job with the finishing on it.

Directly to the left of that digital gauge cluster, there is, like, what looks like a circular dial that lights up, but it actually is nothing. It doesn't do anything. It just sits there. It doesn't change. It doesn't move.

It's like a little bit of a styling flourish that I feel, like, doesn't fit and doesn't make sense with the rest of it. I'd rather have a button there or just a blank plate since, you know, they didn't go out of their way to blend it all together. That seems out of place to me. And I think that this current trend-- I doubt it's going to stick forever.

And I think we're going to get into more organic shapes again in the future, or use very plain straight lines. I think that also works. But if you're going to do that, you've got to go all the way. And that weird little light-up gauge there, it's kind of a thing that would bug me over time.

Like, why is that there? It doesn't do anything. But your mileage may vary. Maybe you don't care.

GREG MIGLIORE: I do think the exterior design probably won't age well either, to your point about just how design, you know, can evolve over time. And I think Hyundai does a really good job of taking a risk for a generation and then change it, and usually that's what we've seen since the Sonata, you know, about 10, 12 years ago.

Very aggressive, you know, very kind of out there. Then they came back, then they kind of lost it a little bit. They went a little too conservative, then they went back out there. And I think you see that reflected across their lineup. Ralph Gilles, who's the head of design for Stellantis, has a great line.

I remember sitting at a design forum with him, probably 10 years ago, and he said something like, well, you know, good design is timeless. And then he kind of said aside, bad design is timeless too. It's still bad, you know. And he's right, you know.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's kind of how it goes. But overall, I think everything we've talked about on the show so far is, like, stuff that's out there, but, you know, we'll look back at it is sort of like that's what the early 2020s were. You know, this isn't going to be some design that resonates into the '40s.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I think sometimes having something that is just, like, of the time is OK. Like, we look back at '90s cars right now that are making a resurgence. You know, like, you'll look at-- you can go way back to the '70s, you look at Burt Reynolds' "Smokey and the Bandit" Trans Am, and you're like, dude, that is so '70s. I love it.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: '80s are doing that, too. Like, X people see Fox body Mustangs, and they're like, oh, Vanilla Ice, man. You know, like-- and '90s are making a huge comeback with Redwood. And I think it's OK to be of the era.

And I think that's kind of-- you know, with BMW's current design language, and Hyundai's current design language, I think that's fine. But I don't think that it's timeless. So I mean, 20 years from now, maybe we'll listen to this podcast and be, you know, making commentary on it, but we'll see.

GREG MIGLIORE: So let's talk about some used cars.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Let's do it.

GREG MIGLIORE: I've compiled a couple of lists for 10,000, which is a pretty aggressive price point right now. The average new car price we're seeing is about 40-- I've seen 45, 44 or 45, as high as that, which is insane. It was like 38, 39, 40 for years. Recent years, anyway.

But a couple of lists here. If you're looking for just, like, something to drive around, maybe in the winter or you need, like, a second car, or you're just looking for something because, hey, it's fun to shop for cars, a lot of good choices here. I'm going to tell you which of these I would go with, but just kind of take us through the list here real quick, the list real quick.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Sure. I broke it down into two parts. I broke it down in, like, sedan hatchback, and then I did a whole separate list for crossovers and SUVs, because that's what everybody is buying right now. On the used cars for 10,000, so this barring hatchbacks and-- or, excuse me, this is barring crossovers and SUVs.

I'll run down the list real quick. It is-- there's an Acura TSX. There's a BMW 3 Series. Chevy Volt, Ford Fusion, Honda Accord, Honda Fit, Lexus GS 350, Mazda Miata, Nissan Leaf. That is the list at $10,000 for sedans and hatchbacks. On the crossovers, the list-- crossovers and SUVs-- starts with the Kia Soul. And these are by size and segment.

So starting subcompact, Kia Soul. Compact, Honda CRV. Mid-size SUV, Jeep Grand Cherokee. A very specific set of model years there. You can see the reasoning in the article. Mid-size luxury crossover, RX 350, 400H from Lexus. Midsize three-row, Acura MDX.

Again, there's a reason to choose a specific set of years to get transmission that's not going to cost you thousands to repair. Large crossover, Ford Flex. Large luxury SUV with three rows, Lexus GX470.

And the absolute big daddy of the group, starting with the 2008 Nissan Armada full-size SUV. That's the traditional body and frame truck-based SUV on the list. So those are the numbers. Those are the entries. Curious to hear your commentary, Greg, on what you like off of it.

GREG MIGLIORE: The cars are so intriguing to me because there's a lot of stuff on here that is either practical or fun or both. Like, the Miata or the Volt. I mean, if you just need either a fun car or a commuter car, I mean, boom, here you go. The Volt to me, was a really-- like, I mean, I guess I can't say it didn't get enough credit for what it was because, I mean, back in '08, '09 we acted like it was the moon landing, which it kind of was.

But it just turned out to be a very good hybrid sedan. And you can still get one that's not that old and drive it for four or five years and drive a hybrid and not use much gas. So I mean, to me, that's a very practical one.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I totally agree with you. I think this $10,000 sedan list can be broken down in a couple of ways. But the number one recommendation that I would make off the list is the Volt, like you just said-- for all the reasons you just said. Four doors, a good sized cargo space, excellent fuel mileage, and you don't feel like you're being penalized for choosing something practical and efficient.

GREG MIGLIORE: I do like the 3 Series, though, recommendation. I actually started to go down the rabbit hole here. I went to our used car section. It looks like near me there's a pretty nice '09 3 Series. It's a 328i. 91,000 miles for about $8,500. That's kind of nice.

And here's another one. An '01 3 Series. So you're getting even a little bit older. It's convertible. It's for 8,000. This is the 325Ci. I got to click on that. What am I looking at here?

This is-- so when I picture, like, the kind of car, I just want to, like, in the summer, like, throw my golf clubs in and just, like, not drive far but drive fun, if you will. This is, like, what I'm looking for right here. It's--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: This is pretty great. Let's see if it's where it is. This is interesting. This is not that far from me. Well, it's a little far for me. But yeah, six cylinders. It's got the straight six.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Which is what you want.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, exactly. It's got the automatic, though. A car like this--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I'll tell you. You mentioned that 328. Was that a sedan or a coupe?

GREG MIGLIORE: It's a coupe. It's convertible.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Oh, well, that's the 325 you're looking at now.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yes, yes, sorry. I clicked over to that one. Yep.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, there was a 328 that you found. And I think that's kind of, like, a sweet spot in those models. The 328 later became a turbocharged four cylinder. But in this era, we're talking about the 328 was just one of the most smoothest, silkiest inline sixes you'll ever come across, which is saying a lot, because inline sixes are inherently smooth and silky.

Maybe not the Jeep 4 liter that that was also an inline six, but traditionally BMW's inline sixes. This is, like, one of the very sweetest engines that you're ever going to find. And the fact that they've fallen down into that less than $10,000 price bracket makes them really attractive as a, quote, unquote, "beater."

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Which you don't have to treat. You know, we use that as a term. You don't have to treat a car-- you don't have to beat it for it to be a beater.

It just means it's not the one that you're making a $700 a month car payment on and you're afraid of every ding and scratch and thing that your child spills in the backseat. We're just talking about this is the car that you're going to drive every single day, load up with miles and not feel bad about. And for that kind of thing, man, that era of 3 Series is hard to beat.

GREG MIGLIORE: I would say, too, that if you even want to step up and be a little more practical and go to, like, the 328. You know, you're getting a newer car. This one is specifically newer. But I mean, it can be what you want it to be.

It can be, like I said, your golfing and go car, or it can be-- like this '09, if I needed a car, I would look at this one and maybe call this guy up, you know, because probably it's got four or five years left in it. Now, granted, a BMW is not going to be a cheap thing to maintain. So you got to deal with that. But--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. And I kind of sort of mentioned that in the write up, too. And if you're listening to this and you find this topic interesting, you should definitely go check it out, leave a comment and let us know what you think.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: But the BMWs of that era, it was right when they were adding things like variable valve timing, which I think they call their VANOS system. It's just prior to when they started turbocharging the 3 liter inline 6. But there's an era there that is the one that we're talking about, the one that has really fallen down into easily attainability for someone who's got any sort of job that didn't have the variable valve timing, they didn't have high pressure oil systems, they didn't have, like, these direct injection systems that tend to foul up.

It was kind of, like, peak analog, so to speak. And they're not analog. They're computer controlled and all that. They're not old school carburetor engines, but there's a certain simplicity to these late '90s to mid 2000s vehicles that makes them easier on a livability and repairability standpoint for your typical mechanic. Less likely to cost you an arm and a leg when something does go wrong, which it will.

GREG MIGLIORE: Real quick on your SUV list. A lot of stuff here that, I mean, is either fun or practical or both. I don't think I'd do the Armada, but the Lexus GX470, buy an '03, you're fine. Buy a '09, and you probably got another SUV for 10 more years. You know, that Lexus is going to run forever.

Everybody I think at Auto-- not everybody, but a lot of people at Autoblog love the flex. Just, it's so huge. And I actually just had this thought the other day. I was walking through the neighborhood and, like, that '08 10,000 Cherokee, right before the redesign, sort of, like, Chrysler's first redesign for the Grand Cherokee out of bankruptcy. The Grand Cherokee, that was, like, the first thing they showed.

And they showed a concept before anything else, almost a show. Like, hey, we do have new vehicles. We're alive. I remember showing this thing, and then the journalists were like, when is this going to be on sale? They're, like, two years from now or something like that. Point being, though, is just kind of, like, it almost sounds like a military vibe with those fender flares.

I could see this generation really getting some love. You know, it's going to be still, I think, pretty affordable, definitely practical transportation. I always liked it. I think it's a very interesting design. Maybe if an XJ is too expensive or too high maintenance for you, this is something. At this point, it's still basically a used SUV.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. Yeah. And I specifically called out-- two follow-ups on what you said. I specifically called out the 2008 to 2010 Grand Cherokee for a couple of reasons.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: It was the latter version of this, like, real blocky design. We talked about, like, standing the test of time. I think this design is going to stand the test of time because it's not--

GREG MIGLIORE: Agreed. Totally.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, there's just not a whole lot of, like, oddness or weirdness or-- you know, it's like a two box SUV. There's just enough styling flourish to make it interesting, but not so much that it's going to date it. And starting in '08, they got a slightly nicer interior.

And anyone who was looking at Chrysler products, this was the Cerberus era. So it's when they were bought out by private equity money. And from everyone that I've talked to that worked at Chrysler, Jeep at the time, including several relatives, they basically had to take huge cost cutting measures to attain profitability and make the suits happy.

And one way that they did that was by just drastically reducing the quality of interior materials. They started to see that that was affecting sales and they were losing-- they were losing ground to some of their competitors. So the second wave of vehicles from this era tried to write some of those wrongs to the best of their ability. So a little bit softer touch plastics, a little bit cleaner lines, more lit up switches, like, just the usability was-- it's like small things really made a big difference in the design.

Also, the Hemi that you could get in, say, a 2008 Grand Cherokee, it was the lower power version before they switched to the newer high tech valve train, but that's not necessarily a bad thing because it's still plenty of power. It's still a 5.7 liter Hemi V8 that's powering the thing. And these particular Hemis, and the five-speed transmission that they're mated up to and the Quadra-Drive, or Quadra-Track transfer cases, four-wheel drive system, are very durable.

It is not a bad choice for something that you're actually going to get some driving enjoyment out of and probably not get penalized with big repair and maintenance bills. So that was-- you mentioned the Grand Cherokee. The last thing I'll say, the Lexus GX on this list is probably the very best bet. They have led the vehicle durability and reliability rankings for two decades, the Lexus GX.

It's built on a platform, the Toyota Cruiser Prado platform, that is renowned worldwide for just being this is the vehicle that if you're going to take into the Australian Outback, this is the one you pick because it's going to get you out of the Australian Outback. You're not going to die of dehydration because your vehicle broke down and you had to hike across a desert. Super reliable, super durable.

One person left a comment in our story that they couldn't find one in the $10,000 range. So I did a quick little search. One little nuance of our website, if you're searching for used vehicles, you'll get better results if you put your zip code in and narrow it down. You'll get more results if you do that, then if you just, like, say, show me everything.

It'll give you a greater-- so set it to something like 500 miles. Don't leave your zip code out. Set it to 500 miles and do the search. I found a 2004 with 100-- less than 140,000 miles on it for 10-- right around $10,000, and another 2005 a state over. That is a vehicle that's very likely going to give years of good, solid service without, like, putting you in the poorhouse with maintenance bills. Just, it's a really, really solid choice if you happen to be constrained to this price category.

GREG MIGLIORE: Check out both these pieces. We'll be promoting them throughout the month of December just as we end the year. It's a good time for people who might be, like, used car shopping. December 26th, it's often a very big day for car purchases. So check these out.

Nice work, Jeremy. I enjoyed going through them. You know, it resonates with me because there's usually a 3 Series that's in my budget and then some SUVs that I remember going on the launches in my first decade in the industry or something.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: We're showing our age.

GREG MIGLIORE: Right, right. All right, so real quick. This morning I posted my last column of the year. We rotate through our columns. It was my turn.

This is actually round five of our columns for the year. So I kicked it off. So I thought it'd be a good time, December 1st, just to reflect on all the EVs I've driven. Eight of them really stuck out with me. So check that out.

My list includes Rivian, Lucid, Mercedes EQS, Mach-E, the-- let's see-- what else am I missing here? I'll pull up the story. So there's--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: There's an EQS.

GREG MIGLIORE: EQS. ID4.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: You have the Hyundai IONIQ 5 on this list, too.

GREG MIGLIORE: IONIQ 5 and the Hummer. So there we go. That's all eight of them. I caught myself flat footed on something I wrote, like, hours ago.

But just-- I mean, first of all, check out the story, a little self plug here. But for me-- and I'd like to hear what you think here, Jeremy. 2021, this is, like, the year that EVs really just became such a thing. Like, you can order a Lucid right now if you want to. You can't get the Air Dream performance thing that me and Jon Lovitz tested out. If you read the article, you see what I mean.

You probably can't get, like, some of the first editions, but a lot of these startup companies, like Rivian just went public, they're bringing their cars out to you. I can't wait to drive the Fisker. That's going to be another interesting one. Joel, I think, drove the old Karma, which was a Fisker at one point.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right.

GREG MIGLIORE: These things are out there. Like, you don't need to get on some secret, like, Tesla waiting list and tweet Elon to get these things. Like, you could, like, you could order a bolt. You can't get one because they're fixing the ones from 2021 before they start building the ones in 2022.

And that was another part of the list. I think the Bolt was one of my favorite EVs because it's so-- it drives really well. It's fun. The inside feels futuristic, but just the recall. It's such, like-- like a tow stub, you know? EQS was a car from the future.

Lucid, I think, was the most beautiful thing I drove this year, just full stop. Yeah, and the Mach-E and the Hummer, I think, to kind of put a point on this. Those are two of the ones that were, like, super hyped, but really didn't live up to expectations for me. So here's to 2022.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I haven't had a chance to drive all these EVs that you did this year. Consider me jealous. So I'll just run down and give, like, a brief thought on each one of them. The Hummer EV I think is going to be pretty darn epic.

It's also way out of reach for most buyers that are listening to this podcast, myself included, but I'm glad it exists, or will exist soon. The Lucid Air Dream Performance, I think this one is super expensive. This particular version that they're leading with. They'll sell them all, but I'm looking forward to some of the lower grade models start hitting the market, ones that are actually going to sell in real numbers. And I think that'll be a better test of how Lucid can compete in the coming years against Tesla.

The Chevy Bolt, I haven't driven the new one. I've spent quite a bit of time in the previous generation, and quite liked it. I think it's an excellent mainstream daily driven vehicle. Something that, once they get the repair sorted out, could potentially be on a future buy list for me along with the BMW I3, which I also really like, maybe less practical, a little bit more out there, but more interesting.

The Volkswagen ID4, I really like the interior of these things. I think they did a really cool job making it seem like a next generation vehicle without going, like, full crazy on the interior. Big fan of that.

The Ford Mustang Mach-E falls into a similar vein with an added degree of performance that the Volkswagen just doesn't have. So the Mach-E is one to-- one that I think is really going to break-- break into the mainstream mindset with people because it's a Mustang. It performs like a Mustang. It's within reach of a lot of buyers, and there's so many different versions of it that you can probably find the one you're looking for.

The Mercedes EQS is that out there vehicle. It's like, the S-class of electric cars. I doubt that they're going to sell in huge numbers because of just it's price level, but I think it's pretty cool. The Rivian R1T is on my definitely in the future I'd like to own one of these list, especially the truck.

I love the fact that it's a truck with a usable bed in back, plenty of storage. And I could see myself owning one of these a decade from now and having it be my everyday vehicle. And I really-- the last one on your list, the Hyundai IONIQ 5, I love what Hyundai, Kia and Genesis are doing with this.

I think-- what is it? The E-GMP platform I think is what it's called. Each one of them stands out. It's a really cool design. The IONIC-- the-- I can't think of what the Kia version is called off the top of my head right now. EV6? Is that right?

GREG MIGLIORE: EV6. That's it. Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: EV6. Such a cool-looking kind of sporty hatchback shape. And the Genesis GV60, I think, is on the same platform as well. And I think that's a really intriguing design. So 2021 is the year that I think EVs broke into the mainstream consciousness.

I'd like to see 2022 be the year that they break into the mainstream, like, car-buying purchase decision argument for people. So more to come on that. I mean, I know that they're coming. The products are there. The infrastructure is coming along. The consumer mindset is, like, that-- like, the last piece of the puzzle.

And I think, you know, I'm not going to comment on politics at all other than to say if things pass like they seem like they could, and the incentives get better to, kind of, make some people-- push them over the edge into EV ownership, I think that's a really cool thing. So yeah, we'll see.

GREG MIGLIORE: I think that's where you can see, you know, government perhaps helping with the infrastructure or incentivizing the infrastructure or something because that makes it easier for consumers to get access to these things. Like, I tried to include a-- like, a downside for the vehicles in my column that had downsides. Like, it was the bullet recall. It was Volkswagen lying about [INAUDIBLE] of their company. But the Mach-E had a little bit kind of a toe stub that I don't think anybody really, really remembers, and that's that the level two charger you could purchase, there was a stop sale for that back in the spring.

And I couldn't really find when I went back just last night-- like, it doesn't look like you could buy one on Ford anymore or add it to your, like, when you're trying to order your Mach-E. Obviously, you could get another level two charger. Like, you can get one on Amazon or something.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, you can buy them at your local Home Depot, too.

GREG MIGLIORE: Right. But I kind of liked-- I liked the, like, the Ford app that came with the Mach-E, the way you could set the charging. So I liked all of that integration, but this is a new technology. It's tricky, you know. So yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I'll drink to that, Greg.

GREG MIGLIORE: I was just going to say, rather than worry about this, let's have a beer.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Let's do it.

GREG MIGLIORE: I have-- it's our winter beer list time. Calendar flips, we got to start talking about winter beers. I've got a few, and I know you have a few too. Yours are definitely more, like, in the weeds, microbrews, which is cool.

I'll lead off with my Bells Expedition Stout. This is kind of a go-to beer for me. I like Bells. They recently, the-- I believe the founding family is selling-- like, selling out, if you will, to like-- just it's time for them to sort of, like, sell out. They're getting older. So it's not going to be the largest Michigan independent brewery anymore.

Hey, that's OK. I still love their beer. You know, so there's that. But I just think this is a good beer. Somebody gave it to me I think a few years ago. I don't even know how I came across it. It was like-- I don't know if I left, like, a party and just, like, one of them showed up in my cooler somehow.

Like one of those random things. And then I tried it. And I was like, oh, this is good. You know, and it's a stout.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Nice.

GREG MIGLIORE: And it's just got a nice-- It's a full-bodied beer, obviously. The ABV is 10.5. Drink one or two, and that's all you need. Maybe have one and then switch to something else, or have, like, a couple of, like, Bud Lights or something. And then this is your, like, evening beer by the fire.

Very malty. It's got almost, like, you know, there's almost like a chocolate feel to it. But to me, it doesn't drink like a 10% beer. That's why I like it. Is I don't like-- as you can see by what I'm about to mention, I like lighter beers. Even, like, my regular beers, I like them to be more like in the 4%-ish range. This is just a good, nice beer around the fire, though.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Nice.

GREG MIGLIORE: So that's what I'm going to go with. Have you ever tried it?

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Not this one in particular. I'm pretty familiar with Bells. Being here in Columbus, you know, we get a lot of Ohio breweries, but Bells is one of the ones from Michigan that is always, always stocked on store shelves. So I'm actually-- I've added it to my list the next time I go grocery shopping. I'm going to pick some up at your recommendation.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's pretty good. Like I said, you don't want to drink all six of them at once, but you know--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Duly noted.

GREG MIGLIORE: One or two is good. Tell me about your beers. Are these from Ohio, or are they--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: One of them is Ohio-ish.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I came up with two-- I've actually made this recommendation before on a previous podcast. I don't even know how you say this. I'm Polish. I don't speak Polish.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: So I don't know how you pronounce these letters. Z-Y-W-I-E-C. I'm going to guess that it's something like Zywiec or something like that.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: But I've always been able to get them here in Ohio, when I moved out and lived in Phoenix, when I lived in Seattle. I could find these everywhere. I think that they're imported by one of the big name brand importers. AB InBev maybe. I don't know.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, they're actually owned by Heineken, which we'll get to that. But go ahead.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: OK. All right. But this is a Polish beer. It's in the Baltic Porter style. It is a high ABV as well. I don't know if it's-- what exactly it is. I'd have to look again. But it's up there.

GREG MIGLIORE: 9.5, according to beer [INAUDIBLE].

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: 9.5, 9.5.

GREG MIGLIORE: Gorgeous label, by the way, too. I'm just looking at this.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, it's like black, red and gold.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, it's a great beer.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: And they sell them in pints, too.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: And they're not expensive. So I'll hit my local-- my local stop. I just walk to it from my house, and I'll grab one of these and then maybe, like, a lighter hazy IPA or something, and I'm set for, like, an entire football game. And, yeah, it's a great beer. I highly recommend it. Give it a try if you can find it. The other one-- go ahead. Sorry, Greg.

GREG MIGLIORE: Just IPAs. I was drinking these heavy IPAs a couple of years ago. Speaking of football games, when Michigan State's offense was so terrible. It was like you could not watch, like, Bud Light. You needed, like-- and I like Michigan State football.

So it was like you needed, like, at least a 6% ABV to watch a game. I digress. Go ahead.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Oh, I was going to say, you asked about Ohio beer. So BrewDog. I've mentioned BrewDog in previous podcasts as well. I'm hitting that well again.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, BrewDog's good stuff.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: It's great. Yeah, it's-- they're actually from the UK. I believe they started in Scotland. And I think they're pretty big over in the UK. The only place that they do business in the United States is in Columbus, Ohio and the surrounding areas, but they're pretty sizeable.

So if you live in the Midwest, you'd probably be able to find some BrewDog. Some of their flagship brews, the Punk IPA and the Elvis Juice, which is a grapefruit IPA. They're pretty easy to find. I'm narrowing it down to something a little bit stranger.

They have a brand that they call Overworks, it's, like, their experimental brand. I don't know how easy they are to find outside the state of Ohio. However, if you go to their website, you can buy directly from the website. And if your state laws allow it, they'll ship it to you.

So the one that I chose was their Overworks Boysenberry. Like I said, Overworks is, like, they're experimental brand. They do a lot of, like, farmhouse beers and sour beers, which I'm only ever in the mood for, like, a sour, but I really like them.

So the boysenberry is my pick, but they do several different adjuncts in a similar style fashion-- similar sour style fashion. And they're excellent. It pours like a deep ruby red color, almost like a ruby red grapefruit.

GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, that sounds good.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. It's got, like-- it's lighter on the carbonation, which makes it really drinkable. It's got a great sour flavor, and the boysenberry adds a tartness to it that it's really, really well-rounded. If you like sour beers, I highly recommend giving it a try. And it actually works really well in this cold weather.

Like, it's kind of heavy. Like, not syrupy heavy, but it's not a light beer by any means. It's not super high in ABV. It's probably in the 5%, 6%. I'm not looking at it in front of me. But yeah, it drinks like something heavy that, if you're dressed in a sweater or something, it feels appropriate.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's in general how I feel about, like, porters and stouts is, like, sweater beers. You know, you drink them October-ish if it gets cold up here in the upper Midwest-- good time for that-- and then right through into March. Because, I mean, right when you get that, like, first thaw, that's when suddenly it's, like, OK. It's time to go with something a little bit different.

Bells actually has, like, an oarsman ale. And there's just some, like-- if you really get into beers, there's literally some, like, March beers, that's when you get some of the Belgians in there that can be pretty good.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Totally.

GREG MIGLIORE: So I like to be seasonal. My only problem is I tend to buy like a sixer or a twelver, drink, like, two of them, and then, you know, whatever, right? Forget about it. Don't have a beer for a while.

So I still have a bunch of fall beers. And it's December, which I guess I just need to drink them. That's the solution there, is get beyond them.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: There you go. I mean, if your solution is to drink beer. It's not all bad.

GREG MIGLIORE: And I do have-- I'll close here. I like Stella Artois, and I like Heineken for, like, December specifically. Heineken, all year round, but I just-- I love the commercials. The Stella commercials with, like, the old Citroen, the holiday Heineken.

I remember they used to do the five-pack where the guy was wrapping up a present, and he'd drink a Heineken, and then it's like, hey, where's the sixth Heineken? I think I will likely have a Heineken tonight. I need to go downstairs and chill it.

I do remember I have-- speaking of old holidays. I think I still have some Guinness down there, which is getting me-- from St. Patrick's Day-- which I think-- I mean, I don't think beer really goes bad. I might throw that in there just to have a stout. I think we're going to make some pasta tonight, so--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Nice.

GREG MIGLIORE: You got to have a beer while you're waiting for the water to boil, like mixing up there-- I have this, like, five ingredient kind of sauce I make. You know, while you're doing all that, I don't know how you don't have a beer or a glass of wine or something. So--

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, we just made pasta on the Thanksgiving holiday.

GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, my wife and I got down and we made-- we each made our own raviolis.

GREG MIGLIORE: Oh, ravioli is awesome.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, we popped open a bottle of red wine while we were doing that. So yeah, I'm totally with you. And also, if it sounds like I only drink weird out there beers that you've never heard of, that is absolutely not true. I've been drinking a lot of Yuengling Black and Tans.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, those are good.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, it's just, you know-- the traditional Black and Tan is, what, Guinness and Bass I think?

GREG MIGLIORE: Yes, I'm thinking back to my college days, actually.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, so you mix those two and you end up with something in the middle. And they're just really drinkable. And Yuengling makes one that's just called the Black and Tan, and people in the Midwest know Yuengling for sure.

It's probably available everywhere. I think they're America's oldest brewery, actually, out of Pennsylvania, I think. But yeah, I'll knock back one of those with dinner, you know. I don't break out the real weird strange stuff on a day in, day out basis.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right, so let us know in the comments if you have any winter beer recommendations, holiday beer recommendations. You know, I think-- I was actually looking. I'm seeing ads for this thing called Drizly where they, like, they send you beer to your door, and wine. So that sounds good.

Yeah. All right, before I sound like too much of a lush. Let's spend some money here. All right, Earl from episode 704 sent us an update. He had actually written to us asking saying he has a Model 3, an '18, should he sell it. Just try to flip it. Because he was thinking of getting another Model 3 or something else.

And our advice at the time was, if you like the Model 3, don't do it. Like, the extra money you're going to get isn't going to make much of a difference, but his update is he actually did. He's going to buy just something to get through winter, it sounds like, and go back to gasoline powered cars for a while.

He sold the 2018 Model 3 for 40,000. So he actually made 2,000 on this. We'll see what he drives. Maybe check out one of Jeremy's lists here, you know, if you need something for under 10,000. And then he's going to look and see if he could get an I3, a Volt, check make sure they get the recall settled there, or maybe go up a bit and go with the Polestar 2, which I drove this year.

John Snyder and I both really like the Polestar 2. It's a little understated, but if you get the single motor one, it's a little bit cheaper. Depending on where you live, you know, you might not really need all-wheel drive. So some things to consider there, but these are some like good options. And hey, congratulations for making a couple of grand.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah. The Model 3 actually is on the list of vehicles that is selling for more than people buy them for.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: So, I mean, selling, when that's a thing, maybe that makes sense. And I like your idea of buying a beater until you figure out your next choice. I really like the I3. You mentioned that.

And you mentioned the Polestar 2, Earl. Both of those are pretty cool vehicles. You mentioned buying a beater and going to gas for a little while. If you don't care about the brand, the one that stands out, we mentioned it earlier, is the Chevy Volt. You could buy one for less than $10,000.

It's going to have all the practicality that you're likely in need of, and you're going to get 40 miles of pure electricity on it every single day, or every time you plug it in, which hopefully is every single day. And then it's never going to leave you stranded without charge either because it's got the backup engine. So if you're looking at a beater and you don't want to spend very much money, it's hard to go wrong with the Chevy Volt.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's kind of a nice kind of bridge actually, you know. Go from electric back to a hybrid, then go back to electric.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: So we can leave it there. Be safe out there. Don't drink and drive. Have a great first week of December. We'll see you next time.

JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Bye, everybody.

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