Chefs band together to demand business interruption coverage amid COVID-19

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Chefs band together to demand business interruption coverage amid COVID-19

Restaurant owner and chef Thomas Keller speaks out on financial struggle brought on by the coronavirus outbreak.

This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," April 3, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And as you just said, the Bank of America, in particular, has really -- of the big banks -- has really stepped into it. They have done a fantastic job. Today, it's over...

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Ten thousand in the first two hours.

TRUMP: Yeah. Bank of America has been unbelievable. And I want to thank them. I want to thank all of the community banks and the smaller banks that have been loaning a lot of money -- paycheck. It's all about the paycheck. And that -- nobody would have believed it could have gone so well.

So it's just a number of hours. But the numbers are far greater than we would have anticipated. So it's been really great.

And thank you to all the banks, but again, in particular, Bank of America. They really stepped right up and they did it. There were no big deals. They weren't making a big deal out of anything. So that was terrific.

And I think what we want to do -- John Cornyn, please. I know how you are so involved in this, coming from the great state of Texas. Would you like to say a couple of words, John?

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you for convening the meeting. Many of us have been talking together, but we can't get done what needs to be done. Only you and the administration can. And particularly, getting the attention of the Saudis and flooding the markets, really adding insult to injury in a time when on our economy was suffering anyway because of the coronavirus. And so this meeting could not be more timely.

I agree with what's been said about the importance of affordable energy to our standard of living. And, really, we've changed the -- changed the world as a result of the production of domestic energy here, and improved the quality of life for a lot of people.

TRUMP: Thanks very much, John. Really good job. And John agrees -- we were talking about it the other day -- that you've all done well, but you've also kept energy very affordable, really. Very, very affordable and very -- a lot of it. We never had any problems. And we're going to keep it that way.

Do I see Dan back there? Dan?

SEN. DAN SULLIVAN (R-AK): Yes, sir, Mr. President.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: I was looking -- I thought that looked like Dan.

SULLIVAN: I want to thank you for convening this meeting. You know, under the Trump administration, working with the Congress, the U.S. has become the world's energy superpower again. It's unbelievable. And these companies have done it. Obviously it's a very important issue in my state, the great state of Alaska. But these are great jobs, as John Cornyn just said, for all of our states. But it's really important for the national security of our country too.

And we have been -- a number of senators have been reaching out, having frank discussions with the Saudis, saying, Hey, if you're a longstanding ally of ours, we're not -- right now, you're hurting a lot of our citizens. You're hurting a lot of the people we represent and shouldn't take us for granted.

We have a great military that's protected Saudi Arabia for decades. And Senator Cramer and I have some legislation that could possibly change that if they don't start cooperating.

So again, we appreciate your leadership with the Crown Prince, with the Russians, in calling this meeting.

But this is a great sector of the U.S. economy that, once we get through this, and we will -- of this pandemic, this -- this sector is going to take off again. And your -- your administration and you have had a lot to do with the strength of the U.S. energy sector. And we need to keep it strong.

TRUMP: Thank you very much, Dan.

And Kevin Cramer, North Dakota. People don't realize how big a producer North Dakota is. Right?

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Well, Harold knows.

(LAUGHTER)

CORNYN: Harold knows.

CRAMER: It sort of allows the others (OFF-MIKE)

TRUMP: Harold -- Harold knows, that's for sure.

CRAMER: Mr. President, to echo everything and maybe add a little bit: The people around your Cabinet table right now are part of the renaissance of oil and gas in this country. But since you became President, we went from a renaissance to security, to independence, to dominance. And that dominance and that security are -- right now are in some danger.

Just a quick example: In North Dakota, since Saudi Arabia and Russia announced their little price war, we've had $6 billion of cutbacks taken out of our state, planned for this year.

TRUMP: Yeah.

CRAMER: I was economic development director when the entire gross domestic product of North Dakota was $13 billion. So that's significant. That represents not just CapEx. That represents lots of jobs, lots of people in the value chain.

And I would just add one word to what Dan talked about with regard to Saudi Arabia. It is estimated by one report in 2018 that we spent a minimum of $81 billion defending global oil supplies. We can use that money in national defense and other hot spots in the world, if our friends are going to treat us this way.

So I appreciate your outreach this week. I think we're halfway there just with the success of your diplomacy this week. Thank you for this meeting.

TRUMP: Well, it's gone up. It's gone up. And we have to. Otherwise, we do -- we lose a lot of jobs too. We're talking about one of the big job producers anywhere, Kevin, right?

Would you have anything to say?

MIKE SOMMERS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE: Mr. President, thank you. I'm Mike Sommers. I'm President and CEO of the American Petroleum Institute. The folks around this table represent the American energy revolution, and we want to thank you for everything that you've done to support that revolution. And we want to make sure that revolution continues...

TRUMP: Right.

SOMMERS:  ... after this pandemic crisis is solved.

TRUMP: Thank you, Mike.

SOMMERS: Thank you, sir.

TRUMP: Thank you. Very good.

MCCARTHY: I think Senator Cruz was somewhere...

TRUMP: I think he's around here.

MCCARTHY: Right back there. Ted can't be seen.

TRUMP: Where -- where is Senator Cruz?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's hiding behind the press.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: I can't believe it. He's gone -- he's gone over to the evil side.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: That's terrible.

Cruz, what are you doing there?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Mr. President, thank you for convening this meeting. This is an important meeting and this is the time, as you know, of crisis all across the country -- a public health crisis and an economic crisis.

As you've heard, and as you know, from everyone around this table, the energy sector has been a huge part of the economic success and boom that we've enjoyed over the last several years. And the combination of the economic harm of the coronavirus crisis, combined with the Saudis and Russians waging economic warfare on jobs in this country, it's been a perfect storm in the energy sector.

And I will tell you, there are a lot of jobs -- there are millions of jobs in Texas and across the country that are represented by the men and women around this table and by energy producers. And there are small producers throughout Texas and throughout the country who are -- who are on the verge of being driven out of business.

And so this -- this meeting, I think, is important. Every one of the senators in this room has had multiple conversations with the Saudis, leaning in hard on the Saudis. And your leadership and diplomacy with the Crown Prince had a big impact getting them to stop flooding the market and taking advantage of this crisis.

And I would underscore one other issue that a number of the folks around this table have raised and I'm very concerned about: is ensuring that those in energy in this time of crisis have access to capital. That -- there are jobs that are hanging in the balance. And if the energy producers in this country that have made America the number one producer of oil and gas in the world can't access capital to get out of this crisis, we're going to see bankruptcies at a level this country hasn't seen in decades.

And so this meeting and the continued leadership of your administration is hugely important. Thank you.

TRUMP: Good. Thank you very much, Ted. And while you're up, the concept, and, for instance -- I think we should say it in front of the media -- but oil reserves, storing oil. We're filling up the national reserves, as you know. We're getting the oil at a great price.

But at these prices -- in fact, Kevin and I have been speaking about it; John and I have been speaking about it -- at these prices, you would think you'd want to fill up every cavity that we have in this country. And there's some areas in Louisiana and other areas that could be filled up; they hold a lot of oil.

But at these prices -- and it would be good and it would keep everybody working -- but you would think you'd want to fill up those areas. What do you think of that, Ted?

CRUZ: Look, I think that's exactly right. I think it makes sense in terms of easing the pressure that is threatening these jobs. But it also makes sense for the taxpayer.

TRUMP: Yeah.

CRUZ: That Strategic Petroleum Reserve is there in times of crisis. And usually the way the federal government works is we buy when it's expensive, and we sell when it's cheap.

TRUMP: Yeah. No, it's...

CRUZ: We actually have an opportunity now to buy when it's cheap. I think it was inexcusable that Democratic leadership in the House and Senate blocked that in this bill we passed last week. And then I think Congress needs to go back and address it.

MCCARTHY: It was in the bill.

CRUZ: Yes.

MCCARTHY: And then the Speaker came in and that's the one thing -- when she held this bill up for the number of days -- that she removed.

TRUMP: Twenty-dollar oil. Think of it.

MCCARTHY: Yeah.

TRUMP: Twenty dollars.

CRUZ: Well, and there are too many Democrats...

TRUMP: It's politics.

CRUZ:  ... that want to see these...

TRUMP: It's all right.

CRUZ: ... jobs go away.

TRUMP: I think you should go back though, Kevin. I think you should go back and see, John, if you guys can go back and do a separate bill.

And beyond that I think it's 75 million barrels right now to fill it up. That's not that much. So it's fairly in pretty good shape. But we have other areas that are bigger, frankly, that we can fill up too.

But at those prices, we should be -- we should be pumping it out. So maybe you guys can check on it and see what you can do about it. I don't think anyone can reject it. Nobody can reject it. Ted, you'll work on that?

CRUZ: Absolutely.

TRUMP: Anybody else? David, you guys OK? David, you want to say something?

DAVID BERNHARDT, U.S. SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR: So just one thing, Mr. President. The Department of the Interior manages a large portion of land and part of the offshore. And one of the things we have done over the last 15 days as you had the slow the spread, we have really had our inspectors out on the front lines working to make sure that the production that's taking place is occurring in a safe and a responsible manner, and I thank everybody for their cooperation in that.

These jobs are so important to the American people, and it's important that we make sure that we dot our I's and cross our T's too.

TRUMP: He's the biggest landlord in the country.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Meaning, it's called Interior. Interior is a lot of land, when you look at it. Thank you. Great job you're doing.

So, Dan, go ahead.

DAN BROUILLETTE, U.S. SECRETARY OF ENERGY: Mr. President, thank you. Thank you, sir, for your leadership.

TRUMP: Thank you, Dan.

BROUILLETTE: My name is Dan Brouillette. I serve the president as the Secretary of Energy. With regard to the storage, Mr. President, I'm happy to announce we went to market this week for 30 million barrels. Notwithstanding the desire of the Congress not to give us new money to pursue this idea, we have found an alternative financing mechanism...

TRUMP: Good.

BROUILLETTE: ... so that we can immediately find...

TRUMP: I figured you would.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: I actually wasn't worried about it.

(LAUGHTER)

BROUILLETTE: ... so that can we can find...

TRUMP: What are you paying per barrel?

BROUILLETTE: I'm sorry, sir?

TRUMP: What are you paying?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: He didn't want to answer.

BROUILLETTE: It's going to be a little a low.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: What are you paying per barrel? A flexible price or would it...

BROUILLETTE: They may be paying us. This could be a little low.

TRUMP: So we're going to go negative, like interests rates. Negative.

BROUILLETTE: But, Mr. President, I just wanted you to know -- and for the industry players who are here: We are moving very aggressively. We're using every tool that we have at the U.S. Department of Energy, not only to provide immediate relief for this particular industry and the economy itself, but also to look for technologies that over time will reduce the cost structure for the entire industry.

So we're moving as aggressively as we can, sir. Thank you for your leadership.

TRUMP: Dan, check out other areas where you can store oil.

BROUILLETTE: Yes, sir.

TRUMP: And there are some very big ones, bigger than what we have now. And at these prices, you should do it. BROUILLETTE: Yes, sir.

TRUMP: Refill it up, right?

BROUILLETTE: Yes, sir.

TRUMP: Fill up the tank.

OK, Bob Lighthizer, you've been so great. And this isn't your meeting really, but Bob has done some of the best trade deals ever done in our country. And one of them has kicked -- it actually kicked in on April 1, and that's with China. And I hope they're buying a lot. I hope.

ROBERT LIGHTHIZER, U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: I don't (OFF-MIKE) say anything.

TRUMP: Want to say something?

LIGHTHIZER: I'm here to answer questions, Mr. President, so I will just -- I will just keep my mouth shut. But the trade deals are working. China is good. We're on -- we're on track with USMCA. But I will just answer questions.

TRUMP: He's very shy. That's good. He just wants to make deals. That's all. And you've done a great job. Thank you very much.

We will have a news conference at about 5 o'clock, 5: 15 maybe. And so we'll see you in a little while. We'll answer questions.

But this is a great group of leaders, and we've got to make sure that we preserve and even make greater our energy industry. And I want to thank all of the senators and congressmen, the boss here, for being here and for working so hard. They are -- I will tell you what: They are calling me constantly. They want your industry to be successful and they really -- and they're going to make it that way. We're all going to make it that way.

So I will see you at 5 o'clock and -- same place. We look forward to it. Thank you. Thank you very much.

QUESTION: One question about testing. Was anybody in here tested for coronavirus? We got the new guidance?

TRUMP: Well, would anybody like to be tested? How about you? You want to be tested?

QUESTION: I would love to be tested, actually.

TRUMP: Huh?

QUESTION: I think all of us would.

TRUMP: We might -- we might be able to do that. You know, it's a great question. No, you know what? I like it. Let's test these guys. You know, they gave us millions of jobs. Listen, they gave us millions of jobs. If anybody wants to be tested, we'll test you. I want to test the head of Exxon.

QUESTION: Will this be for every meeting?

TRUMP: No. Not for every meeting.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, you have been watching the United States meeting with some of the premier players in the energy industry, including the heads of ExxonMobil and Chevron, Devon Energy, and a host of others.

And he had some dramatic developments to share with them, that he might have indeed succeeded in getting the Russians and right now at this point the Saudis to agree on some production cutbacks.

It was Vladimir Putin himself who indicated earlier today that a 10- million-barrel-per-day curtailment in production could be very likely. Putin himself seemed to indicate that the U.S. might be part of that.

The president didn't telegraph that, although he did indicate that he'd be very interested, in these low oil prices, stacking everybody up with as much oil as possible.

Now, that lifted oil prices today. They have been very, very depressed. And, of course, the oil industry itself has been disproportionately hurt by that tumble in prices here.

The president sending a message to them that he thinks we're moving in the right direction, these are promising developments. Nevertheless, the market did fall today. We will get into the particulars of all of that. Busy, busy day.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is "Your World."

We're following on what the president is trying to send, a message to both the corporate world and I guess you might call the rest of the world regarding the coronavirus that continues to spiral in some places out of control, like New York state. We will get to that in a second.

First to John Roberts of the White House, what we learned from this and what could be coming up at 5:00, when he meets and addresses the nation and that health care task force -- John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good afternoon to you, Neil.

Yes, this meeting with oil company executives is something that the president has wanted to have for a few days now. He's very concerned. I mean, he does like the idea that gasoline is fairly cheap, because he says that acts kind of like a tax break. But he's also concerned about the health of these oil companies going forward.

And nobody's getting hurt worse than these companies that are in the shale plays, the Bakken, the shale plays in Pennsylvania and Eastern Ohio as well, because a lot of those companies are really stretched out in terms of loans and things. And when the price of oil goes down as much as it has, natural gas, too, they really start to hurt. And we could see a lot of bankruptcies in that sector.

So the president had a conversation with the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman, yesterday to say, hey, why can't you and Russia get over this production war, that you're having a cutback on production, get the price of oil back up?

That's going to help domestic producers here as well if the price of oil goes up.

There was one thing -- and I didn't hear discussed at this meeting -- that the petrochemical industry was concerned about, and that was that there's some talk about cutting off international imports of oil and having to retool domestic refiners to refine some of that oil that's from the Bakken and the Permian Basin, which they're not really tooled to do right now, that industry complaining that it could put extra pressure on them in these hard times, and it might even squeeze them even further.

When we get to the coronavirus briefing this afternoon, the president said 5:15, 5:30 would be more likely, a couple of things to watch for.

Centers for Disease Control now recommending that, when certain people go out in certain areas in certain situations from their home, that they cover their face in some sort of way. They're not recommending masks, because they don't want to put pressure on the mask supply in this country.

They want to keep that for first responders, medical professionals, but maybe a heavy scarf, or a balaclava, or something like that, just something to cover your nose and mouth while you're out maybe shopping and potentially getting within that six-foot distance between you and other people.

And then the other thing that we're waiting to hear is the plan that this administration has that the vice president alluded to last night to take care of people who do not have health insurance who come down with coronavirus disease.

The vice president suggesting last night that they could take some of the money out of the $100 billion that was earmarked for hospitals in the phase three rescue plan and make direct payments to hospitals when they treat uninsured patients.

I'm told they have been working then that plan. It's not fully cooked yet, Neil. We may hear about it today. Might not be until tomorrow. We will see.

CAVUTO: John, would the government be paying those hospitals?

ROBERTS: Yes, the government would make direct payments to those hospitals to cover uninsured patients who come in with coronavirus disease.

Now, so it doesn't give people who don't have health insurance health insurance, because if they get sick from something else, they might not be covered. But if they come down with coronavirus disease, it would cover those expenses.

CAVUTO: All right, John, thank you very much, John Roberts.

Now to the Capitol and Mike Emanuel on what they're cooking up, believe it or not, a fourth round of stimulus. This could be a doozy. There's been talk about infrastructure spending, in which both parties seem to have a common interest, despite their differences on lots of other stuff.

Mike, what are you hearing?

MIKE EMANUEL, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Neil, absolutely right.

You heard President Trump say, we're going to take a -- seriously look at an infrastructure package. It's something that's been discussed for the past year-and-a-half or so. They have been thinking President Trump, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and the Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, could be on the same page when it comes to rebuilding America.

So far, it hasn't happened. But you have had the speaker of the House out talking about phase four of the coronavirus response package, putting a bunch of wish list items together. So perhaps the president marking his turf by saying, let's do infrastructure. We will see how that pans out.

What was striking to me was looking at that room, obviously, you have people socially distanced around that table, but the number of lawmakers who are in town. The Senate left about a week-and-a-half ago, after passing the $2.2 trillion coronavirus response package 96-0.

And you had a bunch of senators around the table from energy-producing states. You also had the House Republican leader, Kevin McCarthy. And the House has basically been gone about a week since they passed the infrastructure -- or, rather, the coronavirus response package a week ago, which the president signed into law.

His approach on a next phase has been, basically, let's see how phase three goes. We just spent $2.2 trillion. Let's see what that does to the economy, where there may be some more needs and where perhaps they're good.

And so it'll be interesting to see. They're already starting to talk about phase four, as they're trying to get money out the door from phase three -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Mike, thank you very much.

So, do we need a phase four, when we still haven't really addressed phases one, two, and three and getting all the money out from them?

Let's ask Senator John Kennedy, Republican of the beautiful state of Louisiana.

Now, Senator, what do you think? Do we need yet a fourth stimulus/relief measure?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Well, it depends on what's in it.

If we follow Speaker Pelosi's lead, I think her intention is to use the coronavirus as a political opportunity to prosecute her -- her left-of- Lenin agenda. And I'm not going to support that.

I think, right now, what we need to do is concentrate on getting phase three implemented. We passed a bill, $2.2 billion -- trillion, rather, with leverage, up to $4 trillion. But it's one thing to have Congress pass a bill. It's another thing to get that money in the hands of people.

The president, I was listening carefully to his press conference too, Neil, about the oil and gas. I'm going to speak a little more plainly than the president did.

The reason that the bottom has fallen out of the oil -- of the price of oil, which is threatening to bankrupt our oil and gas industry in America, is the lack of world demand, but also a price war between the Saudis and Russia. They're acting like two kids fighting in the back of a minivan.

And Saudi is supposed to be -- the Saudi Arabians are supposed to be our friends. Instead, they are acting like the tallest hog at the trough, trying to put our people out of business.

Now, if it was not for the United States of America, Saudi Arabia would be a province of Iran. We're the only thing standing between them and an Iranian takeover.

We have spent trillions of dollars there. We have troops stationed there. And this is what we get in return? I talked to the Saudi ambassador to the United States yesterday, and I told her just that. I talked to the president and the vice president about this problem day before yesterday.

He thinks that the Saudis and Russia are going to work it out. I hope they do. But, if they don't, I don't think either one of them are going to like what the president does next.

He has some very definite ideas about how to address the situation.

CAVUTO: All right, we will watch that -- we will watch that closely, Senator, but what...   KENNEDY: We're not going to be shoved around in this crisis.

CAVUTO: All right, I apologize, with this delay. Understood.

But let me ask you a little bit about the employment report that came out today, 701,000 jobs lost. The unemployment rate has sprinted up to 4.4 percent. It's likely to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

I'm just wondering, with talk of a recession, some say a depression, are you worried this isn't going to end any time soon?

KENNEDY: Of course I'm worried. We're all worried.

I don't personally believe we will have a depression. I do believe we're going to have negative growth in the third quarter. We're about to inject between $2.2 trillion and, with leverage, $4 trillion into the American economy. The whole economy is not -- is about $21 trillion a year, the largest in all of human history.

If we can get that money into the hands of people and businesses, it's going to really help in terms of unemployment and GDP growth.

The checks from the IRS are going to start going out next week. The loan program for small businesses, through our banks, started last night at midnight. Out of $350 billion, so far, we have made about a billion dollars in forgivable loans.

Our weak -- I will tell you what our weak -- our weak spot is. Our weak spot are the state unemployment compensation programs. The federal government is putting up an enormous amount of money to top off those payments, but the payments are made by the state unemployment compensation program.

I'm not being critical. They're overwhelmed. But our program here in Louisiana is way, way behind. And we have just got to work together and do better.

And it has an impact on our health situation, too, because...

CAVUTO: So, let me ask you. Let me -- but, Senator, let me ask you -- let me ask you about this.

The recession, depression, I get that. I mean, we don't know. I mean, we got as high as 24.9 percent during the Depression. A lot of economists on all political fences here are saying it's going to go higher than that.

And I'm just wondering, for people waiting for this aid, and obviously champing at the bit to get it, are you worried that, even with that, even with it, we're going to be rocketing on the unemployment front?

KENNEDY: Yes.

Well, yes, it's going to keep going higher. I expect -- and this is just one person's opinion -- it could get as high as 9 or 10 percent. But it will be temporary.

And it doesn't have to get that high.

CAVUTO: Well, it's going to get a lot higher than that, Senator. Senator, it's going to get a lot higher than that.

I mean, we might be there already.

KENNEDY: Well, it depends on -- no, it -- it depends on when we hit the -- the apex.

And it'll be a rolling apex, because some areas of our country will recover quicker than others. It's also going to depend, Neil, on how quickly we can implement universal testing.

A lot of people who've had the virus, a lot of people who've had the virus and didn't even know had the virus, the doctors tell me, will enjoy for a reasonable period of time, they think, immunity. Those people can go back to work.

CAVUTO: Right.

KENNEDY: So, I don't -- I don't think we're going to go into a depression.

And I don't concede, necessarily -- it's possible -- that we will go above 10 percent employment. But it all depends on how quickly we can get this recent tranche of money into the hands of the American people and how much cooperation we get from...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Well, Senator, I follow the numbers and -- I follow the numbers and the direction here, Senator.

And the bottom line is, with the 10 million or so Americans who just within the last two weeks filed for unemployment claims, the math already shows we're going to zoom up over 10 percent.

The Federal Reserve of Saint Louis, every major investment bank says, at a minimum, it's going to be 20 percent.

I know your hope springs eternal that we never get there, but that as things stand now, with just the rollout of unemployment applications being filled out as we speak.

KENNEDY: Right.

Well, yes. And you -- and I have seen the same studies. I have seen the study done by the Saint Louis Federal Reserve about their projections.

CAVUTO: Right.

KENNEDY: But here's what I have learned.

For every economist, there's an equal and opposite economist. And, oftentimes, they're both wrong.

(LAUGHTER)

KENNEDY: And those reports are not taking into account the loans by the Federal Reserve to our larger companies, the $350 billion grants to small business.

They're not taking into account the checks that are supposed to be coming for unemployment insurance. And they're not taking into account the direct stimulus checks, if you will, that are going to come from the IRS.

Now, the whole purpose of those loans is to get people back to work. And most of them are conditioned on the companies not laying off their employees.

Will it -- am I saying that it's impossible to get above 10 percent? Of course not. It could get a lot worse. And we have got to face the fact that we're going to take it full in the face.

CAVUTO: All right.

KENNEDY: But you know what, Neil?

What I have learned in life, when you're going through hell, the best thing to do is keep going. And I'm not going to concede that this has to be any worse than it than it already is, though it probably will get slightly worse before it gets better.

I'm not one of these people who believe that we're going to have 20 and 30 percent unemployment, and we're all going to die, and we're all going to be living in the desert eating cat food, not if we do our jobs.

CAVUTO: Well, I didn't say we're all going to die, Senator, or we're going to be eating cat food.

I'm just saying, the math being what it is -- you're right, we could come through this and be OK, but just the direction in which we're going might make that unstoppable before it slows down.

But I hope you're right. You mentioned the small business loans and all of that. That could encourage a lot of small businesses to hang on to those workers, because those loans then become grants, and maybe you can mitigate this. But, right now, it looks a little -- a little dicey.

But we will see.

Senator, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for taking the time.

KENNEDY: Thanks, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right, Senator.

All right. I want to go to chef Thomas Keller.

He is an owner of Thomas Keller Restaurant Group, founder, very concerned about how insurance companies and a lot of others are kind of leaving the restaurant industry sort of on the vine here. He was kind enough to join us.

Chef, thank you for taking the time.

Your concern is that your industry has kind of been forgotten, right?

THOMAS KELLER, OWNER, THOMAS KELLER RESTAURANT GROUP: Thank you, Neil.

I -- before I get started, I just want to say how grateful and appreciative I am for all of the health workers out there on the front lines. They are doing a tremendous job. And I just wanted to say that.

Thanks for asking about the insurance companies, because we all feel in our profession, and in business in general, that the business interruption insurance is being denied, at a time when we need it the most.

And we need to have some action here, so that our restaurants and businesses can survive to reopen, again, to nurture and nourish our guests when they come into our doors.

CAVUTO: So, what is happening?

Now, when you look at -- and, of course, it's obviously going to get worse, as we look at job losses, the unemployment rate beginning to move up sharply. This is going to get worse before it gets better. And to the senator's point before, obviously, you want to see it get better sooner, rather than later.

But the fact of the matter is, things are only going to get worse for the folks you're looking out for.

KELLER: Well, I'm not sure how they're going to get worse.

We had close to 1,200 employees, and we have about 14 left. So, I hope we're able to maintain those 14 here at home in California doing some work for our community.

But, yes, is it going to get worse? It will only get worse if we start to permanently close our restaurants because we can't get relief. And that relief needs to come. For those who have business interruption insurance, it needs to come through our insurance company.

CAVUTO: Is it that insurers are just nervous about even being in the business of insuring restaurants?

KELLER: Well, it's interesting, because, for 25 years, I have had business interruption insurance.

I have contributed over $15 million just for business interruption insurance alone. I actually have a rider here in California that takes in account this exact situation. And I paid extra for that. And the insurance companies are still denying the claim.

And that, to me, is very upsetting personally, when I look around at my team, my staff, and wonder what's going to happen to them in the future. We are just trying to maintain their health care benefits at this point, because we know how important health care benefits are.

But we need some immediate help here. We know that there's relief on the way. It's just not coming fast enough.

And restaurants are closing permanently all around us.

CAVUTO: Right.

I wish you well, Tom. You advocate for not only your colleagues, but your industry, very, very well.

No group that I can think of as a sector of the economy has been hit harder. We will be watching very, very closely.

Chef Thomas Keller, looking out for an industry that a lot of people seem to be forgetting. He will not.

All right, we have a lot more coming up, including a chat with the woman who was the first to come up with this 17-foot distance thing. She's an MIT professor, but what she told me about the rationale behind keeping your distance, I mean, three times the distance, four times the distance than you have been told, makes a lot of sense.

We're going to debate it -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  CAVUTO: Should you wear a face mask?

We are probably about to find out what the White House is recommending and the health care task force in about a half-an-hour. Should we? Should we not?

After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  CAVUTO: Delta Airlines has gone ahead and submitted an application to the Treasury for those grants.

You might recall they set aside anywhere from $80 billion to $85 billion for the airline industry, because it was just flattened by the virus. Its overall bookings ticketing and plane capacity is down about 90 percent from when the virus first hit, 90 percent, Delta Airlines now saying, we want some of that. Let the application process begin.

Then there is this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYDIA BOUROUIBA, MIT PROFESSOR: It's a gaseous cloud that is coming out with high momentum, and carries within it a full spectrum of drops, from the big ones that you can see, to the ones that are invisible that you cannot see, at the micron size.

And that cloud, it turns out, makes a big difference in the range that these drops can reach that are trapped within it, particularly for the extreme events, for sneezing, for example, which is the highest momentum emission that we can reach way beyond the six feet, can reach up to 26 feet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, that is Professor Lydia Bourouiba. She works at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, better known as MIT.

She's a numbers person. That's what she is. She does the data, collates the data. And she came up with a fascinating study that said, given just the aeration that we have when you cough, when you sneeze, and all of that, that that -- those projectiles go into the air as far as 27 feet.

Now, Dr. Fauci and others have sort of pooh-poohed this analogy, saying that you really have to take a leap to get a sneeze or a cough of that magnitude.

But all this professor is saying over at MIT is, it's a realistic concern, and the transmission and the air of this sort of stuff is realistic enough to say that that 27-foot thing that she talks about, that distance, isn't necessarily a goal, but just a reality that, in some conditions, it is that much.

Now, does that mean we should separate from each other, not six feet, but 27 feet or further? Can you imagine how difficult it is already in stores or crowded places which we go? And then you have Costco and a host of others today trying to limit how many people go into their stores, limit it to you and one friend or a family member.

And all of a sudden, then you have to change that and make it even fewer people.

The read on a little this from Dr. Harvey Fineberg, the chairman of the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, doctor of internal medicine as well.

Doctor, what do you think of that, this notion that maybe it's not 27 feet, but it shouldn't be just six feet? What do you think?   DR. HARVEY FINEBERG, NATIONAL ACADEMIES OF SCIENCES, ENGINEERING, AND MEDICINE: What we have pretty well established, Neil -- and let me just say it's great to be with you.

CAVUTO: Same here.

FINEBERG: There are several pathways by which a virus can be transmitted.

One is by the large respiratory droplets from a sneeze or a cough that come out, or when someone's just talking close to you or shouting in your face, you can feel their spray, that's the big droplets.

Then there are the smaller droplets that can come out from talking, laughing, also part of sneezes and coughs. And then there are the very tiny aerosol, which are completely invisible and so tiny that they actually can float in the air.

All of these could be vehicles to carry virus from an infected person out to where they could infect others. It's true, if you're right in front of somebody who's sneezing, you really don't want to be just three or six feet in front of them. You would be better off six feet to the side of them.

And it's better to be in the outdoors when that happens than indoors. But all of these routes, and the possibility that you just touch a contaminated surface, and then touch your face, these are all ways this virus can be transmitted.

CAVUTO: Doctor, could I get your thoughts on masks? When do you think they're necessary?

We're told that, maybe in the White House briefing today, they're going to put it out there, yes, if you want to, use them.

FINEBERG: Yes, we're going to hear something, everybody is saying, soon.

There is some scientific evidence about the effectiveness of different kinds of masks. In general, our health professionals need to have N95. These are the masks that block out most of these tiny particulates.

Surgical masks are not as good as N95, but they're needed by our medical personnel.   The question for the rest of us out in the public is, does it do any good to wear a cloth mask, something that isn't surgical or an N95? And by and large, most of the evidence is, if all you're thinking about is protecting yourself, maybe it's not that good.

But if everybody wears it, and we protect against our own spray emanating out as much as it would without a mask, it's still going to get through in part, and the tinier particles especially will get through, but it could do some good.

And, actually, every little bit we can manage to diminish the spread of this infection is really to our advantage.

CAVUTO: Huh.

I had one other quick question, Doctor.

FINEBERG: Sure.

CAVUTO: You have indulged my idiotic queries here.

But one has to do with this goal the nation pretty much has to kind of get back to normal, or at least a step back from sheltering and all the rest, by the end of the month or the beginning of next month.

In your gut, Doctor, how likely is that?

FINEBERG: Neil, the president says we're in a war with coronavirus.

And it's a war we're fighting on two fronts, the economic front that you have been talking about so eloquently and the biological front against this virus. We have got to fight both.

And on the economic side, frankly, I feel we have been more aggressive and proactive than we have on the biological side. We're still mainly fighting defense. We need to adopt a war attitude. We need a unified command.

We need a person in charge who has the president's complete trust. We need that person to have the intelligence that they need to fight effectively. That means testing, lots of results in the community, as well as for individuals.

We need to protect our health work force, as we have been talking about, and provide the necessary equipment, like ventilators, that our patients so desperately need.

We have got to mobilize the public. And we have got to differentiate between those of us who are infected, those of us who have been exposed, those of us who have already been sick and are recovering and may be more immune.

So, if we can mobilize effectively, if we can address this problem on many fronts at once through a unified command, if we can accelerate the cooperation from federal, state and local levels, it won't be a matter of two to four weeks, but I believe we can lick this virus in 10 weeks, if we set our minds about it, with the right strategy and the right will.

CAVUTO: So, maybe not another four weeks, but maybe another eight to 10 weeks.

Doctor, thank you very much. We shall see. So good having you and appreciate your expertise.

FINEBERG: It's great to be with you now, Neil. Thank you.

CAVUTO: Dr. Fineberg on the front lines helping a lot of folks out and addressing reporters' queries, no matter how idiotic.

All right, he just touched on the ventilator need and getting them out there. What if I told you, you can get these things that cost a lot of money usually? One guy working on them to the tune of about 200 bucks apiece.

How do they do that? After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You have heard the president talk about getting more ventilators out in the mainstream in all 50 states.

You have heard Governor Cuomo saying that he has a shortage of ventilators, and they have to be out there. That is because they really don't come cheap. Some can run into the many thousands of dollars.

Now to a fellow says he could mass-produce them or come up with ways to mass-produce them for as little as 200 bucks.

Danny Blacker is his name, engineering design supervisor at Rice University.

Danny, thank you for taking the time.

How would this work, Danny? Because you always hear with these things, for one thing, they're tough to build quickly. And they cost a lot, minimally.

What do you do?  DANNY BLACKER, rMD-BO_OSHMAN ENGINEERING DESIGN KITCHEN: So, what we're doing is basically taking parts that you get from Amazon or Adafruit or anything like that, just very consumer-grade parts, and putting them together in such a way with 3-D-printed parts and laser-cut piece of wood, pieces of wood, and basically assembling them in the right way to where we can make it do what it needs to do to get these BVM bags pumping and give a good bridge ventilator between somebody who has nothing and has a multi- thousand-dollar ventilator.

It gets them where they need to be and gets the more critical patients off the ventilators.

CAVUTO: How would you do it, though, Danny?

If companies like 3M -- and they got some controversy, because reports are that they were actually exporting some of them to foreign markets. Got a tiff with the president. To be fair to the company, they said, if we cut off those foreign markets, foreign markets might cut off supplies to us.

I'm not going to get into the middle of that battle, but if a company like 3M is having a devil of a time getting out ventilators at any cost at that high a price, how are you going to be able to do it for 200 bucks?

BLACKER: Well, I mean, like I said, it's parts that are already readily available.

And these are parts for like R.C. cars. You have little servo motors or little gears that come with them or just little plastic gear rails. I mean, it's nothing complicated.

We tried to go as simple and easy as possible.

CAVUTO: Wow.

BLACKER: And most of the time, the simplest approach is usually the cheapest approach.

So that's just our -- been our mantra this whole time.

CAVUTO: And I'm showing my ignorance on ventilators, but how do these then compare to some of the ones that the 3Ms and the GMs will be churning out?

BLACKER: So, we're not trying to compare to the ventilator. We're really just trying to bridge the gap between nothing and a ventilator.

CAVUTO: I see.

BLACKER: So these ventilators have a lot of sensors. They go through a lot of qualifications. What we're trying to do is bare-bones to keep somebody alive. That's the whole idea, is to not have to make the decision between who lives and who dies because of a mechanical piece of equipment, when all you need is breath going in and staying in and coming out and getting that oxygen exchange.

CAVUTO: I think this is brilliant, Danny.

But it makes sense you're at Rice University. They only make brilliant people there.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: So, let me get a sense of how soon you think, with the right backing, you could get this really going.

BLACKER: Well, we put out all the plans open-source yesterday, last night.

And we have been working with the manufacturer to try to get these up and running. And they're going pretty fast as well. So I'm hoping, within the next week or two, we could start cranking these things out.

But the plans are open. Anybody can make it now. Any schools, maker spaces, any of that kind of entity could take these plans or the parts and run with it, and have one ready to go in a matter of days.

So, if everybody comes together, everybody could have one, if they really wanted.

CAVUTO: All right, I look forward to seeing them.

Now I remember why John F. Kennedy famously said of Rice University, they make smart people there.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Thank you, Professor, very, very much. I wish you -- I wish you well with this.

We are in the middle of a national crisis, an international crisis. A lot of people are scared.

So, we thought we'd go back to the last big one we could remember as a country, when we were all gripped -- I'm not talking the financial crisis. I'm talking 9/11, because that cut to our core. A lot of people died, and a lot of memories were shattered.

A fellow who endured all of that, lost his dad through that, and is all the stronger after that -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  CAVUTO: What do you think all these images have in common?

Every image that you're seeing here, what do you think it has in common? People making the best of a bad situation by helping others, thanking others, doing for others, some of them dealing with tremendous pressure and, in some cases, losing family members in the process, sometimes getting stuck with the virus themselves, an example of human endurance and strength.

That is something that stands out. In the career that I have had -- and it's gone back a lot of years, because I'm not a young guy anymore -- 9/11 was that special moment for me, covering the tragedy of that awful day, when so many people died so needlessly.

Rob Fazio lost his dad that day. In fact, his father had gotten out of the World Trade Center and went back in to help people. He died helping people.

And his son Rob started the Hold the Door Foundation, because his father literally held the door, so that others may live. Now, Rob could be bitter and angry all these years later, but, within months, he had changed and all around to do some good for others.

He's now trying to remain -- remind a nation kind of in panic mode right now that the same thing applies right now.

Rob Fazio joins me.

Rob, good to see again. How you doing, my friend?

ROB FAZIO, ONPOINT ADVISING: Neil, I'm doing well. It's great to be back on. Thank you.

CAVUTO: No, good to see you. I wish you would age a little bit more, because you look exactly like you did almost 20 years ago.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But that's another issue.

(LAUGHTER)

FAZIO: Well, Neil, I can't really see you right now, but I'm sure you look great too.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Well, you don't want to look, but -- especially these home studios. They're nightmarish.

But let me ask you a little bit about what you learned through the experience here of doing for others, imitating what your dad had done, because it was an interesting survey out not too long ago, Rob, that seven out of 10 Americans aren't nervous about their finances. They're nervous about their health and their well-being and their family and their kids' well-being.

Help them. What do you do?

FAZIO: Yes.

So, we're really focusing on what we're calling flattening the anxiety curve. And we're going to do that through growth. So, just like we're talking about N95 masks and ventilators, psychologically, there are things that we can do to stop the spread of anxiety.

And anxiety is the most common mental illness in our country. Approximately 40 million adults have anxiety. So, we need to do things to help them stockpile positive experience.

We're talking about every day spending 15 minutes doing something where you learn, laugh or love and engage people. And just those short 15 minutes help reset your mind and give your brain a little bit of break.

CAVUTO: I think, sometimes, you can be stopped in your tracks doing something innocent and just simple and decent.

I remember, after you and your family were looking for your dad, he was a big fan of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, and you would leave them out for him. And then when you got the sad news that you would lost him, you still -- that I would still go to the World Trade Center today, and now and then, when I see your father's name engraved outside that sad site, a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup would pop up.

It's little things like that, I think, Rob, that stop people in their tracks, and you think of humanity. I think we need to do a lot more of that.

FAZIO: Absolutely.

So, as we emotionally distance, we need to emotionally closen. So a little image or metaphor, like a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, having a family saying.

So our daughter Reese says, I'm kind of strong and help people. And she's our little alpha leader.

And she reminds us of that importance of just having connections and laughing.

And, Neil, I was thinking the other day. I was talking to an executive. And Reese goes to me: "Daddy, can you talk a little bit lower to your friend? I can't hear Daniel the Tiger."

So I'm going to have to keep some Reese's and cannolis on the side here...

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: But I do notice, you know, a lot of nation, we're all holed up in homes together. And that works in some cases, but, eventually, people get on each other's nerves, I'm told, I'm told.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: And I'm just wondering how you advise to hand it out, because this could go on while. We're talking 30 days at a minimum, maybe more.

I just had a doctor on who said double that.

I'm just wondering how you deal with that and how you recommend other families deal with that.

FAZIO: So, the smarter Dr. Fazio is a tenured professor at TCNJ and specializes in communication with couples in adverse times.

So every day is like a checklist of what I'm doing wrong. So I can share some of those with you.

(LAUGHTER)

FAZIO: If you -- someone in your family is focused, make sure you let them focus. Plan out a day, a week. If you have times that you have to do something where you really want the time, make sure you ask.

And I will be honest with you, I have not been great at this. But I'm in Rob rehab right now. My wife says, self-care is important, Hold the Door, but I'm probably too good at it.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Well, I know the two of you are geniuses. And it's no wonder it passes along in the DNA.

But are you hopeful? When you look at this and you look back to 9/11, different incident, different issue, but are you hopeful?

FAZIO: Absolutely.

So we learned from our research on 9/11 just after is, we looked at the research and what the eight resources that buffer negative events. And we thought that coping wasn't enough.

So, things like optimism, true meaning, humor, emotional intelligence, all of those things that you could find at HoldtheDoor.com, they buffer the impact of crisis and help you grow on the other end.

But it doesn't just happen. You need to be intentional about it.

CAVUTO: All right.

FAZIO: And then, once you learn a new growth resource, you teach someone else it, and create a cycle of strength.

CAVUTO: And have a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, if you have the time.

FAZIO: Or two.

CAVUTO: Rob Fazio, thank you very much.

A lot more on this tomorrow 10:00 a.m. Eastern time. We're live again on this.

Here comes "The Five."

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