'Your World' on Psaki claiming spending bill costs nothing for people earning less than $400K

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Psaki claims spending bill costs nothing for people earning less than $400K

White House press secretary Jen Psaki claimed Monday that President Biden's Build Back Better agenda will cost nothing for Americans who make less than $400,000.

This is a rush transcript of "Your World" on October 4, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Mr. President, it sounds like you're putting the blame squarely on two U.S. senators for your inability to close that deal, Senator Sinema and Senator Manchin. Am I hearing correctly? Is that who the blame lies with?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, I need 50 votes in the Senate. I have 48.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So, the bottom line, the president targeting those two moderate Democratic senators who are not on board with, well, getting on board.

Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto and this is "Your World."

All eyes right now clearly focused on Kyrsten Sinema, who's already been confronted in a restroom. Joe Manchin has already been confronted by kayakers, and all because they're not toeing the party line that says get this done and get this done fast.

The fallout quick and well, for some, too much, too soon.

Let's get the latest right now from Peter Doocy at the White House on where this battle stands now.

Hey, Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Neil. Good afternoon.

The latest here is that the president is about to host a virtual meeting with House progressives to go over the reasons why this package now is going to have to be smaller than $3.5 trillion. But that was kind of a head-scratcher to find out about, because officials around here had been saying that the plan costs nothing. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: So are you now admitting that the plan does not cost zero? Or is it less than zero?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, let's not dumb this down for the American public here.

What we're talking about is how much the top-line investments are, which are all paid for. So, therefore, it costs zero. No matter what the cost or size of the top-line investments are, we have ways to pay for it.

DOOCY: So, just to not dumb it down then, does the plan cost nothing? Or is the plan free?

PSAKI: The plan costs nothing for the American people who make less than $400,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: When the president talks about having 48 votes, needing 50, he is singling out Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin. They have both been harassed in the last couple days by activists, including Sinema last night, in a public restroom.

I had a chance to ask the president himself about what he thinks of these progressive protesters' tactics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: Do you think that those tactics are crossing a line?

BIDEN: I don't think they're appropriate tactics. But it happens to everybody, from -- the only people who it's doesn't happen to people who have Secret Service standing around them.

So it's part of the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOOCY: So he's saying two different things there. He does not think the tactics are appropriate, but that they are part of the process.

A few minutes ago, I asked Jen Psaki if that means that Joe Biden, an expert on the process in D.C., has ever been chased into a restroom. It doesn't seem like he has, Neil.

CAVUTO: Peter, it's very clear from his support of progressives and their linking these two packages -- I'm talking the original infrastructure bipartisan package and now this far more sweeping multitrillion-dollar package, whatever it ends up being -- and casting his lot with them and proving it again today by singling these two senators out.

It's removed all that, I guess.

DOOCY: Well, it also just goes to show that they can't lose any support. And if there is some sort of a Democratic civil war under way right now, he needs the moderates happy, because he needs their votes, and he also needs the progressives happy.

So he's starting today talking to the progressives to try to figure out what can stay in the package and what can come out, because to get it lower than $3.5 trillion, they're going to have to take a lot out.

CAVUTO: All right, Peter, thank you very much for that.

Peter Doocy at the White House.

Let's get the read on all this and the political fallout from this, because they want a smaller package, right? That -- it's the -- the $3.5 trillion one is the one they're focused on right now. And they think they can bring that down to maybe $2.5 trillion, maybe $2 trillion.

But be careful about the math involved here because it might be as simple as selling programs that were to last five years, make them four years, child support services, which were to last six years, make them last five years. On paper, that does cut the size of this, but does it prove reliable in the end, and the numbers that were given, whatever they come up with, are they as trustworthy as they would at least be argued for?

Lee Carter joins us now, GOP pollster, Sarah Westwood of The Washington Examiner.

Sarah, end it with you. I want to begin with you, because it's quite easy, almost too easy, to make this come under the president's guidelines for something in the $2 trillion neck of the woods by simply cutting the duration of some of these planned programs.

Will that close a deal among moderates, who still find the figure too high?

SARAH WESTWOOD, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: That's certainly one of the gimmicks that House progressives want to see used here. They want to see a shorter timeline on the same kinds of programs that would have been under the larger bill, so the top-line number appears smaller, something that perhaps moderates could digest.

There are a couple of other ways they could trim the bill, right? They could drop entire programs altogether. They could means-test some of the programs, which is what Senator Joe Manchin and some of the moderates are pushing for.

But at the end of the day, it's not really clear why progressives are really holding the much more popular bipartisan infrastructure package hostage here, because it's unclear what they have accomplished by doing that. It is still Senators Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema who are really dictated the price tag and the content of the ultimate package here because of the very thin margin in the Senate.

So, even though progressives are denying President Biden this win on infrastructure, are making Speaker Pelosi look like she doesn't have control of her conference, what they have really accomplished is not much, because the top-line number of that package is going to come down, and, ultimately, Manchin and Sinema have to agree to whatever is in it.

And that is not going to make progressives happy.

CAVUTO: You know, Lee, I have got to wonder here.

I know it's a battle for Democrats and who's going to support what, but I always think when -- especially when you're on, Lee, to talk about independent voters who might see Kyrsten Sinema getting followed into a bathroom, or what's happening with Senator Manchin getting heckled by kayakers, that that might have the opposite effect.

And, I mean, people could look at that and say, all right, that's a bit much. What do you think?

LEE CARTER, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Yes, there's no doubt about it. I think the whole process is going to continue to turn off independents, who gave Joe Biden the benefit of the doubt during this election.

He had a 62 percent approval rating just a few months ago among independents. Now it's down to 38 percent. If he can't get this done, if he can't show that he's compromised, if he can't show that there really is a different day in Washington, D.C., and that there's a better way to get things done, that we can compromise, that we are able to move to the middle, then I think he could lose independents in a really big way.

And that could have a huge impact on the Democrats in the midterms should the Republicans be able to get together and come together and find a message that's going to work.

CAVUTO: You know, we do know there's no immediate rush for this, taking the president and some of the things he has been saying about this, Sarah, that this it might take upwards of a month. And I'm thinking that, in that interim, of course, you have the government potentially running out of money by mid-October.

He hopes to avoid that and chastised Republicans for blocking that, but this one-month time frame he has given, certainly, he knows that that could complicate lots of things, besides just this -- these twin packages, right?

WESTWOOD: Yes, Biden's involvement from start to finish here has been nearly incomprehensible.

You remember, back in the summer, when we first started talking about the finalized infrastructure package, the bipartisan one that was passing through the Senate, and the top-line numbers for this massive spending bill, Biden initially came out and said he wanted the two pieces of legislation tied together. That was echoed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.

Surely, they are regretting that strategy. And recall that Biden backtracked on that immediately back in the summer and created a lot of confusion. Then he didn't really participate in negotiations over these two bills until it was too late, until Pelosi had blown through the deadline on the infrastructure package.

When he did start negotiating, he was essentially, by the time he got to Capitol Hill on Friday afternoon, whipping against his own infrastructure package, and letting that be defeated in the House for this much more unpopular spending package.

So it's not clear what Biden hopes to accomplish by getting involved here. But all the lawmakers know that the longer they allow this process to go on, the closer they get to the midterms and to all of these other things they have to deal with, the less chance they will have, the less leverage they will have to get it done.

CAVUTO: All right, ladies, thank you very, very much.

We just don't know.

What we do know today, the besides the back-and-forth of this in Washington, a lot of social media companies and beyond just social media all had outages today. Some of it lingers on as we speak, and include big names like Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, virtually all of them.

What the heck was going on?

Ashley Webster in Palm Coast, Florida with more -- Ashley.

ASHLEY WEBSTER, FOX BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hey, good afternoon, Neil.

One can only imagine the panic as people were unable to post pictures of the meals they had for lunch. Imagine that.

Shortly before noon Eastern time, Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp all went offline for users around the world. Facebook says it's working on restoring the services after similar disruptions earlier this year in March and July, but they're not saying what the problem is this time around.

It also comes after a former Facebook employee and whistle-blower claimed in a "60 Minutes" interview last night that the social media giant puts profit before reining in hate speech and fails to protect teen girls from self-harm. Frances Haugen says she copied tens of thousands of pieces of internal documents to provide as proof.

Now, what does Facebook say? It says it's not true, the company does not encourage bad content.

It says: "We continue to make a significant improvements to tackle the spread of misinformation and harmful content. To suggest we encourage bad content and do nothing it's simply not true, just not true."

Haugen, by the way, will testify before a Senate subcommittee tomorrow. The title of that hearing? Protecting Kids Online -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Rains, it pours.

My friend, thank you very, very much, Ashley Webster, on all of that.

Well, you have heard that inflation is going to be a fleeting problem, transitory. Of course, it's not. And as for this supply chain disruption, where carmakers can't get what they need to get cars to you, it's also not transitory, and that's probably an understatement.

And doesn't our Grady Trimble know it?

GRADY TRIMBLE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, the problems are on the coasts, but they're also here on -- in the heartland, and they could cause major problems with the holidays approaching.

We will tell you how next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE MARCUS, CO-FOUNDER, HOME DEPOT: One member of the board, his father was the biggest banker in Dallas. And his father was an investor, and wouldn't give us a line of credit.

CAVUTO: What didn't they like about it?

KEN LANGONE, CO-FOUNDER, HOME DEPOT: No credit. What are you talking about? We had an idea. That's all we had.

A cornerstone of our belief from day one was the people in the store. We always believed that, if this was going to work, we had not only get the right people. We had to motivate them. And after we got them, we had to respect them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: You know, over my 25 years I have been at FOX, from the very, very beginning, I have had the pleasure of talking to some remarkable individuals.

You're going to see snippets and vignettes from those over the next week or so on all my shows here. But when I talked to Ken Langone and Bernie Marcus, the co-founders of Home Depot -- neither one of them, by the way, has a handy bone in their body -- but the concept for Home Depot was stuff of historic and iconic proportions, and they believed in what they were doing.

These were the types of inspirational guests we had. And I just wonder how they would handle some of the supply chain issues we have now bedeviling retailers actually all over the planet. Forget about the Home Depots.

Grady Trimble seeing it firsthand in Chicago Ridge, Illinois.

Grady, this is not going away.

TRIMBLE: Neil, there's a lot going on.

The same problems you're seeing on the coasts with ships, it's happening here with trains. They're coming in, and we're hearing reports of trains being backed up for miles waiting to have shipping containers unloaded off of them and onto trucks like these.

And the problem here is a confluence of several things, but namely the fact that consumer demand is high right now, extremely high, combined with the fact that there is a shortage of truck drivers.

We're at a company called C&K Trucking. They could stand to hire about 200 truckers right now. And then look at the numbers for the entire industry. The industry projects that it'll experience a shortage of some 160,000 truckers by 2028.

I talked to the president of C&K Trucking, and he says that people are shopping online like crazy and in stores. And that is a huge part of what's causing this rush. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE BURTON, PRESIDENT, C&K TRUCKING: we usually have a seasonal peak about now. And then things start to slow down, because all the goods are getting in the warehouses for the Christmas season.

But for the last 10 months, we have seen it just continue to peak at this all-time-high level. And we don't see it dissipating, until demand slows down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TRIMBLE: And some of the truckers here are making twice as much as they used to. Other companies are offering sign-on bonuses between $5,000 and $15,000.

Some good news is that the retailers saw this coming, so they ordered for the holidays a lot earlier than they normally would have. But the message from retailers to consumers now, Neil, is buy early and buy often to make sure there's no Christmas crisis and your gifts get to where they need to be on time.

CAVUTO: Yes, early, early, early is the word.

Grady, thank you very much for that, Grady Trimble.

All this confusion about the supply and the chain and what's happening certainly with inflation that's not transitory sticking it to stocks today. A host of other factors were at play here, as the Dow careened more than 300 points to start this first full week of October.

Let's go to Peter Tuchman, legendary New York Stock Exchange trader. He had a devil of a time dealing with COVID.

I hope you're OK right now, Peter. How you feeling?

PETER TUCHMAN, NYSE TRADER: You know what? I'm getting better a day at a time. Thanks so much, Neil.

CAVUTO: All right.

TUCHMAN: Feeling good today.

CAVUTO: Excellent. You look great, my friend.

So let's talk a little bit about this. You know better than most how disrupted this virus has been, certainly to societies the world over, markets, et cetera, but now the fallout from that and how it's affecting supply chains all over the world, factories that are slow to reopen, particularly in Vietnam. It's affecting iPhone 13 deliveries.

What's going on here? Should we be worried?

TUCHMAN: You know what? Look, the reality of what really has happened, your prior guest talked about it.

The word global is the best way to describe what's really, really happening here. Normally, when we talk about the economics and the markets, we think of this -- our entity, the United States, the domesticness of this event and our economic resiliency.

But what's happened with COVID -- and I felt it so much being part of the illness myself -- was the incredible global decimation of supply chains, of the human race in so many ways, and of the ability to get back on base and start producing products. The supply chain was interrupted.

And there's no playbook for it, Neil, right? We're seeing -- look, our trading partners globally were affected in a huge way, the Far East, one of the biggest parts of it, and there are still stories, still so many unknowns relative to the virus and the vaccine and what's going on there.

The reopening story still has a lot of unknowns about it. So what we're seeing -- and, also, your prior guest talked about it -- in the heartland of the U.S., on our coastlines, the disruption of the supply chain and the distribution of products coming in to one of our highest seasonal demand parts of the year, as well as a world that is starting to reopen to whatever extent it is.

So there's a lot of problems, that we don't really know how it's going to unfold.

CAVUTO: But it is October. I know September is technically the worst month, Peter, but you and I can remember more than a few hits in October.

Are you worried that this could be a spooky month?

TUCHMAN: You know what? Look, let's look at the market.

The market has been incredibly resilient. I just noticed, as we went by, yes, the market was down almost 400 today. We still are at 34000 in the Dow and 4300 in the S&P 500. Taking into account where we are globally, inflation-wise, supply chain-wise, trading partner-wise, the volatility, the vaccine, the virus, the variant, there are still so many unknowns, so many obstacles to recovery, I think we're doing OK.

We are going to see some seasonal weakness. We are seeing a little bit of a spike in the yield, a little bit of sell-off in the Nasdaq and the tech sector. But net-net, the market, for me, tends to tell us what it thinks of all of this.

CAVUTO: Right.

TUCHMAN: And if they really wanted to pound this market, they would be selling it off more than where it is right now today, Neil.

CAVUTO: Good perspective, my friend.

What's important is that you recovered from this. That was scary. And I'm glad you have bounced back. But the COVID didn't know who it was messing with.

Please stay well.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Finish that thought.

TUCHMAN: You know, I really -- I really appreciate that.

Let's take a moment to give you a big congratulations for your 25 years at FOX. Your transparency, your honesty, your discipline, your consistency in media has been extraordinary. So I give you a big shout-out to you.

You were always somebody who really made me feel comfortable while I was ill and gave me a reason to get up every morning. So I thank you for that.

CAVUTO: Well, we need you, my friend. There's no better just iconic symbol of these markets than your doggedness being there through thick and thin, even when you were very sick. That's incredible.

All right, Peter Tuchman on that, the genuine article there.

In the meantime, I don't want to spoil your Christmas here, but I think Dr. Fauci has. Something about the crowds you have? Do you like your in-laws? I think he's saying limit it -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Captain Kirk is going to space.

William Shatner, 90 years young, is going to be on a Jeff Bezos rocket next week, the oldest human being to travel, up to now.

More after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET BRENNAN, HOST, "FACE THE NATION": We can gather for Christmas, or it's just too soon to tell?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: You know, Margaret, it's just too soon to tell.

We've just got to -- concentrating on continuing to get those numbers down...

BRENNAN: Yes.

FAUCI: ... and not try to jump ahead by weeks or months and say what we're going to do at a particular time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, so, Dr. Fauci, we're taking it a week, a day at a time. Christmas is still a ways off, but, but, but holding out the possibility that, if this is lingering and these cases are lingering, no, we might have to revisit just how many we have over at our house.

Dr. Bob Lahita joins us right now, St. Joseph's Health Director, Hackensack Meridian School of Medicine professor, much more.

Doctor, what do you think of what he's saying? Hold off on the big invites for Christmas?

DR. BOB LAHITA, ST. JOSEPH UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Well, we go through this, Neil, every holiday.

We first have Thanksgiving before Christmas. And Thanksgiving, to me, is even more crowded than, say, a Christmas holiday.

CAVUTO: True.

LAHITA: Although there will be lots of celebrations.

You have to be careful.

CAVUTO: So...

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Right. And if there are in-laws involved, you got to be careful there, Doctor.

What I'm curious about is, he obviously is concerned about too close contact, crowded contact. But we haven't had any problems that I know of, Doctor, in packed stadiums for football games, baseball games, all sorts of things.

So are we over that? Or are we getting ahead of ourselves?

LAHITA: Well, I don't think we're getting ahead of ourselves.

This virus fluctuates. So, right now, it's proceeding downward. And I'm very encouraged by that. I do believe that it's going to go away eventually, but not in the immediate future. So, if you're not vaccinated at a family event, that could be a problem, if everybody else is vaccinated.

CAVUTO: Now, in the meantime, there are a lot more venues, sports and otherwise that require proof that you have been vaccinated. In fact, it's causing quite the controversy in places where they're requiring it for teachers, health care workers and the like.

How do you feel about those various mandates?

LAHITA: I think the mandates for health care professionals are a must. I think, for schoolteachers, professors in colleges, that's a must.

We are seeing, or we are very close, Neil, to herd immunity at this point with over 75 percent of the population vaccinated. So these mandates did help in that regard. But I don't believe that we should be mandating companies of 100 employees or more, because that's bad for business. And I think the economy will suffer from that.

So we have to be very careful going forward.

CAVUTO: I guess the latest figure, Doctor, on these booster shots is better than 600,000 Americans have already taken it. And that was as of this morning. I'm sure it's more now.

What do you think of them?

LAHITA: Well, I got a booster shot last week. I think it's terrific.

And I think that, based on the scientific data, that after eight months of having the two shots -- I had the Pfizer shots -- that the antibodies wane. Cellular immunity continues.

But just to be on the safe side, and I think everybody feels this way, a booster isn't a bad idea, particularly for the elderly and those who are immunocompromised.

CAVUTO: Got it.

Doctor, always great catching up, Dr. Bob Lahita on all of that.

By the way, speaking of proof of having been vaccinated, do you know that Mark Cuban demands that for his Mavericks basketball team? In fact, in fact, if you want to watch his games, you better make sure you are vaccinated. It not only applies to those who watch the games, who also have to be masked, but the players themselves.

Mark Cuban on why he advocates that -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: What do you want do when you step down?

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I haven't made final decisions yet. And there are some -- there are some decisions I can't make, particularly ones that relate to financial matters, I simply can't make until I leave.

But what I want to do is to build my library, my public policy center. I want to be a useful citizen of our country. And I want to have some constructive role around the world and help people that would like me to help them in however way I can.

CAVUTO: Sort of like the Carter Center.

CLINTON: Yes, I will -- I will do different things, but sort of like that.

But I -- it's very important to me not to get in the way of the next president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, flashing back, but now right to the president and this president and the push for the rich to pay higher taxes.

Mark Cuban would seem to be an obvious target. I talked with him earlier today on what he made of that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK CUBAN, OWNER, DALLAS MAVERICKS: I don't have a problem paying more taxes, whether it's business or personal. We have been at 39.7 percent before, and that's fine by me. We have been higher than 25 percent for corporate. That's fine by me. I'm good either way.

Am I happy with the way the government spends it all the time? No. But that's a different topic.

In terms of taxes of unrealized gains, I think that would be a disaster. I think -- honestly, I don't think Elizabeth Warren knows that -- all what she's talking about when she when she deals with this. I think she just likes to demonize people that are wealthy. And that's fine. It's a great political move for her.

But I just don't think that they really have -- really understand the implications of taxing unrealized gains.

CAVUTO: As you know, Donald Trump seems to be all but running in 2024. He hasn't said so. But he's certainly doing all the things that a potential candidate does. Now, you were considering running in 2016 when it looked like he was. If he does again, would you?

CUBAN: No, no interest at all.

Again, I didn't run before because of family. And I just -- it's just not something I want to do. I think I have always been apolitical, until 2016 came along. And I just think I can have greater impact in other areas.

I created something called the Cost Plus Drug Company, where we're taking on big pharma. We're doing some other things in terms of drug discovery that I think will have an impact. I have created the A.I. -- Mark Cuban A.I. Bootcamp for underprivileged kids across the country.

There's just so many different things that I'm finding I'm able to do that have an impact, that I think that's more important to me right now.

CAVUTO: So, when Donald Trump is polling even or slightly better than Joe Biden at this point -- it's very early, obviously -- how would you feel if he returned to the White House?

CUBAN: Look, woulda, coulda, shoulda, all the hypotheticals, there's no point in getting into those, Neil. We will see what happens in 2023 and where we're at.

CAVUTO: Were his policies better for you as a business -- very successful businessman, than Joe Biden's now?

CUBAN: No.

Look, we're only nine months into Joe Biden's term. How many CEOs have you interviewed that have come in to turn around major corporations, and nine months in or three-quarters in, would you say, why -- would you ask them, why aren't you completely turned around?

I mean, you can go IBM, GE, any number of companies that have brought in new CEOs. You don't turn around corporations in nine months, let alone make significant changes to a country. And, look, there's no point in arguing the policies of one vs. the other, because we're only nine months in.

CAVUTO: So, when you say turn around, the Trump people will obviously say, Mark, well, he had nothing to turn around, that is, Joe Biden, nothing to turn around before the pandemic hit, and we were coming out of the pandemic. The economy was on fire. The unemployment rate had sunk to 3.5 percent. There was nothing for him to turn around.

What do you make of that argument?

CUBAN: Well, look, we can -- the pandemic did hit, and it hit during the previous administration. And more power to them for initiating the vaccine. And that's been a miracle and amazing.

Now you have to implement it. And now we -- just like we dealt with the original, the pandemic, we had to deal with the changes with the Delta variant. We have had -- honestly, I never thought that there would be the vaccine hesitancy that there is. To me, it was a miracle of science, and the Trump administration deserves credit for initiating it.

But now we're having all these questions about why not to get it, which, to me, is crazy. And so that is a black swan-type event that this administration has to deal with.

So, in terms of what was good, what was bad, look, the last administration, there were some things I liked, a lot of things I didn't like. I didn't like the uncertainty. I didn't like the tweets. I didn't like him firing everybody. I didn't like him putting himself first.

But there were some business policies that were beneficial to me. With the Biden administration, I like that we're trying to deal with income inequality. I just think we're doing it the wrong way. I think it's smart to try to deal -- to invest in education and health care and prenatal care, just a long list of things that I look at as investments and other people look as expenses.

To me, if you improve the education of preschool and grade school, then that's going to pay dividends in a work force going forward. There's just so many things we need to invest in, in this country, infrastructure. How are we going to compete in the world if we're behind with A.I.? And I think the Biden administration is rightfully placing an emphasis there.

CAVUTO: Does it bother you that it costs so much money, and a lot of the things you're addressing are part of this, but not all of this?

CUBAN: Does it bother me?

Again, it's an investment. The question isn't how much we're spending. The question is, what kind of return can we get on it? We know what the expense is right now when we don't help people with health care, what we -- when we don't help people with early education, when we don't help people go to work because they don't have day care.

There are just so many things that we just continue to pay for as if we hope it'll go away someday, and it never will. We need to make investments to change that. And so I'm all for spending, investing.

Look how many trillions of dollars are being invested in technology because they expect a return. I believe in investing in the American people, and I believe in investing in putting people in a position to succeed. And, to me, that's what a lot of this spending is.

CAVUTO: It's clear you're not running for president right now. Would you run for anything else?

CUBAN: Hell no.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: OK, I will take that as a no.

CUBAN: Nope.

CAVUTO: All right.

CUBAN: I'd run around with my kids. That's what I would do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAVUTO: All right, Mark Cuban.

You can see the full interview, the extended interview, on our FOX Business.com Web site. If you don't get it, you should demand it.

Meanwhile, we will give you the latest on that oil spill off the Southern California coast. It's getting pretty messy -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, to the oil spill off the California coast right now, apparently a bigger mess than they thought.

William La Jeunesse has the latest.

Hey, William.

WILLIAM LA JEUNESSE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, no cause yet, but the owner of the pipeline said about an hour ago they think they found the location of that leak with an ROV, and they want to send divers down this afternoon. But others say, no way. They want an independent dive team to go down there as well.

Now, one of the main areas concern is what you see behind me. It's a wetland. They're up and down the coast. And right now, they have laid, the Coast Guard and the county, 7,000 feet of that protective boom. Now, you see those guys in the boat behind me? Let me show you what they're actually doing.

They're laying down paper towels to absorb the oil, then putting those in plastic bags. Now, if you look here, you can see oil on the surface of the water. The danger, of course, it gets in the birds' feathers. It's difficult to fly. They can't stay warm and they die. It's also toxic, the oil, to marine mammals and fish.

Now, there are about 23 platforms, if you look at this map. Three of those are owned by Amplify Energy out of Houston. One of them, the Elly platform -- again, these are just off the Southern California coast -- sands crude about 18 miles into Long Beach.

Well, somewhere along that line, the leak occurred. The estimate, 126,000 gallons leaked, the oil now stretching 25 miles driven by the wind and the current to the south. But as the Coast Guard explained moments ago, it is not one big blob.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. REBECCA ORE, U.S. COAST GUARD: I would characterize the oil as sort of isolated ribbons or patches of oil. So it does cover several miles. And that is constantly changing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LA JEUNESSE: So, basically, the owner imply that it may have been a tanker or a fishing vessel dropping anchor on that pipeline.

Again, the local DA does not buy that at all. He wants an independent investigation. Either way, Neil, this is going to be expensive, first to taxpayers, the insurance company, and we will find out if there will be punitive damages in any kind of a court case going forward.

But the Coast Guard is monitoring this spill as it goes to the south -- back to you.

CAVUTO: Thank you, William for that.

William La Jeunesse in California on all of that.

Meantime, debt, debt, debt, it's always a big issue causing a big crisis for the 25 years I have been here at FOX, almost around the clock -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You know, in the 25 years I have been here at FOX, a couple of dozen times during that period, we have come to the brink, and our debt has been soaring and soaring and soaring.

It's not just a current-day theme. Year in and year out, it's been a consistent, scary theme. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: This is your defining issue for the remaining months?

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, fiscal conservatism is one of my defining issues for the remaining months.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Wall Street landscape has so dramatically changed in just a matter of days, Lehman Brothers filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Dow dropping more than 400 points even after the government announced its plan to rescue AIG for $85 billion.

CAVUTO: You're now the fellow who founded that company AIG and, on paper, at least, lost billions of dollars, I think about $6 billion. But, rest assured, Hank Greenberg is still doing OK.

Why should the government bail it out?

HANK GREENBERG, FORMER CEO, AMERICA INTERNATIONAL GROUP: AIG, as far as I know, wasn't bailed out. I was on...

CAVUTO: It was taken over.

GREENBERG: It was taken over.

REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD): Clearly, the consequences of an AIG failure would be substantial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a dire emergency.

CAVUTO: Hindsight is wonderfully 20/20. But, Congressman, I do want to...

FMR. REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D-CA): That isn't hindsight. That isn't hindsight.

CAVUTO: Oh, Congressman, come on.

BECERRA: We tried to warn about the deregulatory effects.

CAVUTO: I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I got to tell you I'm still in the shed.

All I'm saying is rethink this, everyone. Sometimes, sometimes, the cure can be worse than the disease for all these minus signs, the medicine for the meltdown worse than the meltdown.

We figured, since politicians are working on a Saturday, we might as well see what all this fuss is about. And, man, are they making a fuss and scaring a lot of folks in the process. We do the $700 billion thing, same thing. The market is going to be like, oh, thank God we got this behind us. And then, boom, it's going to happen again. They're going to be waiting for their next stash of cash.

And guys like you were going to be saying, well, give it to them.

JACK WELCH, FORMER CHAIRMAN & CEO, GENERAL ELECTRIC: Well, a lot of things right are happening, Neil.

Look, I'm not prescribing that this is going to be the perfect solution. But I think you have got to understand that the market is really deteriorating and we're going to have a very rough '09.

CAVUTO: I wouldn't question you this tough if you were still my boss, but you're not my boss anymore, so I don't care. But...

WELCH: I don't think it's very tough.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Mark, you could solve this problem here if you just write a check, but I guess you're not tempted to do that.

CUBAN: Even I can't write a check that big.

CAVUTO: The markets were supposed to go up after the Senate rushed through this better-than-$700-billion rescue package. They did not.

Well, signed, sealed and delivered, the biggest financial rescue in American history signed just moments ago by President Bush to officially make it history.

Financial balance of the banks and looking to help the whole companies in very dire economic moments, certainly, was started by you and President Bush. Do you regret any of that?

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I disagreed with bailing out the automobile companies, but I would have -- would have encouraged the process go forward for Chapter 11.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: What about the banks?

CHENEY: The banks were different. And the reason the banks are different is because they're part of the financial system that is the heart and soul of our economy.

CAVUTO: A lot of people who, ever since the first big financial rescue and then the auto bailout, which was done under a prior administration, they're essentially adding up the numbers and they're saying, enough is enough.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): I am here today on the Neil Cavuto show and happy to announce that I'm formally announcing my candidacy for the U.S. Senate from Kentucky.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.

CAVUTO: Well, plenty of hooting and hollering, as a nearly trillion-dollar health care plan becomes the law of the land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back off. Clear the way. Back off.

CAVUTO: Medicare didn't change. Medicare didn't change. Some have argued you put new pressures on it. But that lady in that bed behind you that your staffer is holding up...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Congresswoman, I'm saying your staffer holding up that picture is holding up the wrong picture!

Are you getting nervous?

RICHARD TRUMKA, PRESIDENT, AFL-CIO: Am I getting nervous?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMKA: No. We're getting excited now.

CAVUTO: Talk about an unhappy meal.

Now, it started, it started with a single burger. It was McDonald's telling the government that it wanted out of the new health care law. Then, all of a sudden, a few more companies wanted in on that order, and then a few more and then more and up to 144 requests saying, you know what? Hold the health care.

FMR. SEN. TOM COBURN (R-OK): We're spending money we don't have on things that we don't absolutely need. And we're never going to solve this problem until we start addressing those issues.

ERSKINE BOWLES, FORMER CO-CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL COMMISSION ON FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY AND REFORM: We have got a lot of serious tough choices to make in this country, because I can guarantee you, this deficit will destroy this country from within.

ALAN SIMPSON, FORMER CO-CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL COMMISSION ON FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY AND REFORM: This baby ain't going away. And they may not like anything, but this one is an indigestible lump.

CAVUTO: I generally rule the worthwhileness of a project by how many people it ticks off. And if you have ticked off significant numbers on both sides, you have done your job.

Any chance they can still avoid a cliff this Christmas? Trillions of dollars in spending cuts and expiring tax rates are on the line?

JON HUNTSMAN SR., FOUNDER & CHAIRMAN, HUNTSMAN CORPORATION: They promised us they would have a deal by the end of the year. The American public expects something by the end of the year. We expect the Democrats and Republicans to come together and figure out how to increase revenues and decrease this massive deficit that we have.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congress has now approved a compromise to reduce the deficit and avert a default that would have devastated our economy.

CAVUTO: Everyone breathing a sigh of relief, we are told, because this debt ceiling issue has been put to bed.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ): If we did what we did today, in other words, cut spending for every dollar that we increase the debt limit, over 10 years, we would erase the deficit.

But did we do what we wanted, everything we wanted? Of course not.

CAVUTO: You voted for this deal.

FMR. SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I-CT): Right.

CAVUTO: And I think, to paraphrase, grudgingly. Why?

LIEBERMAN: Well, it was a classic, is the glass half-full or half-empty? Am I going to go with my hopes or my fears? I went with my hopes.

OBAMA: We can come together as Democrats and Republicans to cut spending and raise revenue in a way that reduces our deficit, protects the middle class.

CAVUTO: We are off the cliff and now right into the frying pan. Want more government, you're going to have to put up more dough.

The debt is a problem. I'm obsessed with it, because I think, under Republicans and Democrats, it just gets bigger and bigger. I'm not the only one.

STEVE BALLMER, FORMER CEO, MICROSOFT: I heard about this $2 trillion infrastructure package today. Well, as a country, we only spend just over $200 billion a year. Are we talking about doubling that spend for the next 10 years?

Is that what the proposal is going to be?

CAVUTO: And then where is the money going to come from?

(CROSSTALK)

BALLMER: Where's the money? And what it's going to buy us?

CAVUTO: It is what it is.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is a messy sausage-making process. He's rolling up his sleeves. He's welcoming them to the Oval Office. He will have some COVID-safe snacks, whatever may happen.

CAVUTO: I think it's an insult to those who make sausage that this anything like that. It seems a lot messier, but that could be me.

I'm not red or blue. To review, I'm green, your green, your money, who's spending it, who is wasting it, who's hiding it. I'm all over it. That's it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: You know, the one thing I have discovered here, now being one of the, I guess, oldest on-air talent at FOX -- in those days, I was one of the youngest.

And in those days, we had a total debt of about $5 trillion. We're closing in on $30 trillion. The one thing that consistently comes up in all these little vignettes, we go back to 1996 looking at, never changes, never improves. No one ever comes up with a cure or a solution. A lot of yelling and shouting and pissing matches back and forth, but it continues.

Funny thing, history. Funny thing watching it for 25 years.

We will see you tomorrow. Here's "The Five."

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